2 family double duplex reconfigured as triplex/garden rental

i am getting some conflicting answers on this- i have a 2 family with a C of O that shows the configuration as a double duplex. i want to reconfigure it as a triplex and garden rental WITHOUT doing an ALT1 and changing the C of O. i want to do all the work under ALT2 permits. i asked a mortgage broker and real estate agent i trust and both said this would not create issues for resale- the bank would see 2 kitchens and a 2 family C of O and be fine with it. on the other hand my architect and expeditor are pushing me to do the ALT1, saying that to be 100% above board and to code i need to have a new C of O issued that says triplex above garden apartment. Anyone have experience with this?

randolph

in Conversion 9 years and 6 months ago

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randolph | 9 years and 6 months ago

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thanks for the feedback everyone.

arch111 | 9 years and 6 months ago

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Why not do the entire project under an ALT 3? construction fence.

slopefarm | 9 years and 6 months ago

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When someone who calls him(or her)self “no permits” tells you there are legal risks to be taken seriously in not obtaining the proper permit, it is worth paying attention to that advice. I would look at it this way. Unless you are planning to do the whole job under the radar, you will be having a professional (architect, engineer, etc) file an application on you behalf and a contractor pull a permit. It’s a sizable job. If the professional you are using is telling you it needs to be alt-1, I think you go that route. If the professional you want to use is genuinely professional and competent and says you can do it with an alt-2, go for it. But don’t go shopping for someone you wouldn’t otherwise use just to find someone who will tell you you can do an Alt-2 if the others are telling you you can’t. And if you do go alt-2, understand the risk that at the end, DOB may still tell you it needs to be amended to an alt-1 before sign-off. You are not out of the woods until the job is closed.

no-permits | 9 years and 6 months ago

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@randolph, sure you can do all of that under your alt2 but it’s still not allowed to be legally occupied until you get a new CO and you’d have to lie and say “no change to use” on your application. personally, i wouldn’t file any of it but you could have problems later on.

randolph | 9 years and 6 months ago

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“you need to change the fire separation between units, make sure they have legal egress, reconfigure the electrical circuits so they can be billed separately. For this it is more risky and potentially dangerous not to file the work with DOB.” yes, and we are. but all of this work can be accomplished with alt2 permits that we already have- electric, plumbing, structural work (masonry and steel), redo the sprinklers, etc. seems ridiculous to have to jump through alt1 hoops just to get the configuration correct on paper. but ridiculous and DOB seem to go hand in hand….. FML.

MDR | 9 years and 6 months ago

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If you are re-configuring the building and getting permits it has to be an Alt 1\. If you were not getting permits then turning it into a single family home is much easier and less risky. You don’t have to worry about fire separations, exits, separate electric circuits, etc. Technically you do need a C of O because you are changing the configuration of the floors. (A C of O lists what the use of each floor is and how they are grouped as units.) However I don’t see any danger to the occupants if you didn’t do this. On the other hand if you change from two duplexes to the triplex over garden, you need to change the fire separation between units, make sure they have legal egress, reconfigure the electrical circuits so they can be billed separately. For this it is more risky and potentially dangerous not to file the work with DOB. If you file with DOB you will absolutely be required to do an Alt 1 and get a new C of O as you are rearranging the use of the floors. If you want to avoid the Alt 1 you could just stick with the two duplexes.

resident2 | 9 years and 6 months ago

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You notice that it is only the architects that are telling you need to spend more money and make life difficult for yourself. This is of course how they make their money so telling you otherwise they will not make much money. I would not file it period.

randolph | 9 years and 6 months ago

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SundialStudios- let me present an alternative scenario. say I want to use this 2 family double duplex as a single family (something you see all the time- 2 fam used as 1)….would i still have to file an ALT1 or could i simply rip out a kitchen??

SundialStudios | 9 years and 6 months ago

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Unfortunately, the DOB would require this to be filed as an Alteration Type I. Kyle Page, AIA LEED AP Sundial Studios Architecture & Design, PLLC