Mulling over gut renovation...
There’s such good advice on this site that I thought I’d throw out my scenario. My husband and I are looking for a townhome that is big enough to accomodate our family (2 kids + one due to arrive in January.) Given the shortage of 4 bedrooms that are in decent move-in condition in the neighborhoods we’d like to live in (Prospect Heights, Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Gowanus, Fort Greene, Boerum Hill, etc.) we’re considering buying a townhome that needs to be gut renovated. We are currently renting, and our lease is up June 1\. I’m realistic enough to know that I can’t count on this process to be complete by then, however I’m fairly clueless as to everything that this process entails. Can anyone shed some light on a typical timeframe for a gut renovation, including, time with architect, contractor, construction, bells and whistles, etc? Our baby is due in January, and I know this renovation will be a major disruption to our lives (but would be very worth it in the end), so just trying to figure out how to go about doing this, while having a big chunk of time in the middle of the project where my husband and I won’t be able to be entirely involved. Thanks!
jmjen47
in Architecture 12 years and 8 months ago
9
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9 replies
cate | 12 years and 8 months ago
In my experience, it’s faster and cheaper to buy a place in move-in condition. You don’t get much of a discount on an unrenovated house, and the cost of renovation, plus the cost of living in two places at the same time for two years equals or exceeds what you would pay for an already beautifully renovated space in a prime neighborhood. Also, there are some very beautiful, already renovated and very large single-family homes a few blocks from Prospect Park in PLG — you might take a look.
Amym718 | 12 years and 8 months ago
Look out for change of CofO: We are doing (by the standards of this community!) a modest amount of work on our new house, and we had no expectation of having to change CofO, because the house is a 2-fam and staying a 2-fam. But because we are rearranging where those 2 families will live, our filing requires a change, and we had to make lots of small changes to the plans.
nyteacher | 12 years and 8 months ago
We are in the process of a gut renovation. We closed in December, submitted plans to DOB in March, had them approved by May, began construction in June and are on pace to finish and move in by March. So from closing to move in it will be about 15 months.
goh | 12 years and 8 months ago
Hello, If you assemble the right team and decisions are made swiftly 10-11 months is possible, from preliminary design to completed construction and move in. I’ve worked on a 2 story gut rennovation in a landmarked brooklyn brownstone before, it was a tremendous effort on all parties involved and a successful project. Please feel free to view the project below. http://www.0-to-1.com/projects.php
brucef | 12 years and 8 months ago
While decreasing the number of dwelling units is certainly easier than increasing, the change to C of O triggers the requirement to comply with many new codes, wiping away grandfathered conditions that while grandfathered do not require fixing, which can be a big (or exoensive) deal. If the intent is to streamline the timeline, change to C of O introduces a lengthy, involved process. Like we submitted June 1st week, and are just getting back initial objections.
jmjen47 | 12 years and 8 months ago
Wow, thanks for the information everyone. It definitely sounds like a serious undertaking. Another option is to do something similar to you, Fawn, and buy a multi-family home in OK shape and convert to a single-family home. Anyone else want to share their experience with this type of work? The idea behind the C of O is essentially converting the building to single-family/multi-family, right? Thanks again for the answers!
backeast | 12 years and 8 months ago
We bought a house this spring and are doing a gut reno, we are about halfway through the process, and even with no change in C of O and an approval by the DOB on the first try, the planning itself will have taken about 8 months (granted we didn’t settle on an architect until after we closed, but we started interviewing well before). I suspect the whole process will take 16-18 months. I think this is longer than average, but then again as you say, you’ll be distracted for some time in there. Not only do you have to find a GC, but if you are doing a gut reno, you need to find an architect who you like and trust, and this can take time too. And, there are a million little decisions to be made along the way. I don’t mean to be discouraging, I’m glad we’ll have the home we want, but it’s definitely a serious undertaking, even with very hands-on architects who help guide all the decisions large and small. Good luck!
ProHeights66 | 12 years and 8 months ago
Here’s my two cents, based on my own timeline: 2-4 months to close, after offer accepted (in part because of DoB issues). 1-2 months to finalize plans with architect/designer and get plans filed with DoB and Landmarks. Additional 2-4 mos of wrangling to get plans approved by DoB (I am told they almost never approve plans on the first go-around, but you might get lucky.) Unless you have already lined up a GC by the approval stage, look at another few weeks of interviewing, walking through with potential GCs, getting bids and finally accepting a bid. For me, it was over a year between the time I had an accepted offer on the house and finding a GC I wanted to work with. Just about a year after I closed on the house, work began. 8 months after demo began, we are fully moved in and finishing up final touches. Bottom line: almost 2 years from time of accepted offer to completion of renovation. Mine would have gone faster if (1) I had a better pool of GCs during the initial bid process — nailing down a GC was harder than I anticipated; and (2) I had been able to devote 100% focus on the bidding process and not been distracted with work, travel and kid. When you say you will have a “big chunk of time” when you won’t be involved, consider that lost time. You can’t do this without you or your partner being fully involved, unless you pay top dollar for an architect/designer who has your full proxy and you are comfortable not making the thousands of tiny decisions that go into the project. As they say, your mileage may vary, but I don’t know anyone who has done a good- to- high-quality full-house renovation in less than 10 months. I love my house and am glad I got to do it my way, rather than pay for someone else’s design choices. But you can be sure that (1) something will get delayed at some point; (2) something will get tied up at DoB or Landmarks or both(!) at somepoint; and (3) something will cost more than you budgeted for because of unforeseen conditions. Good luck!
fawn | 12 years and 8 months ago
I’m a few steps ahead of you so can share what I am being told right now. My husband and I just closed on a house this week. It doesn’t need a full gut but needs a lot of work- new windows, moving walls, new kitchen,all new bathrooms, we’re adding hvac, a back door. We’re going from a 3 family to a 1 family and because the building class is changing we need to add a sprinkler system. We need some plumbing and electrical updates. Keeping the cost down is that we are not changing the bathroom or kitchen locations and the building overall is solid. That said, the early architect estimates we’re getting are higher than expected. About 200 a square foot for middle of the road finishes, and even that will require us to closely watch the budget. If we really press with the planning stage- lots of decisions relatively quickly and bringing in a GC early, we may have a move- in ready house (if not completely done) in 10 months. But even that might be tight. Roughly we are being told that planning will take at least 2-3 months, permits 2-5 months, construction 4-5 months. Obviously a gut would take longer. Add to that time to find an architect which could be weeks or months. If you are trying to move quickly, I suggest avoiding homes where you need to change the c of o. Also, we were looking for years before we found a house that was priced for a real renovation but didn’t have obvious structural issues or other big problems. I suggest taking your time looking unless you have enough money to absorb huge renovation costs. And give a few architects a call to ask their advice and see what they feel you should look for if you want to move quickly. Good luck and congratulations on the baby!