Report: Red Hook Streetcar Network Too Costly
Streetsblog and The Daily News have stories that explore how a DOT study says a proposed streetcar system in Red Hook would be costly and difficult to implement. Streetsblog notes that the study says the streetcar line would “only create 1,822 new daily transit riders” but cost around “$176 million, with another $6.2-7.2 million in…
Streetsblog and The Daily News have stories that explore how a DOT study says a proposed streetcar system in Red Hook would be costly and difficult to implement. Streetsblog notes that the study says the streetcar line would “only create 1,822 new daily transit riders” but cost around “$176 million, with another $6.2-7.2 million in annual operating costs.” There’s still going to be a public meeting about the study in May, but its suggested “short-term improvements” for improving transit in the area include revamping the intersection at Mill Street and Hamilton Avenue to increase and improve access to Red Hook; possibly making service changes to the B61 line and adding new bus shelters; and putting in a pedestrian refuge on Clinton Street and Centre Mall. Meanwhile, the Daily News has this quote from Red Hook Civic Alliance Co-chairman John McGettrick about how Red Hook transportation could quickly be improved: “An alternative they could do in the immediate future would be to provide bus service to Manhattan via the Battery Tunnel.”
DOT to Red Hook: No Streetcar For You [Streetsblog]
Red Hook Trolley Would be Folly [The Daily News]
Photo by sillygwailo.
Oh — and you will probably have to remove some of the parking (AACK! I know) and create loading zones (at least for parts of the day). This is successful in other parts of the city. They just expanded loading zones on Church and it’s been very successful.
Sparfucile — I think we already covered that Red Hook not coupled with zoning changes would not be appropriate.
Flatbush isn’t that narrow — it’s just because of the double-parked cars and other unenforced shenanigans.
Just put the streetcars against the curb, loading and unloading would take place on the sidewalk just like the bus. This lane could be used by both the streetcar and any buses that may still travel down portions of Flatbush.
Parking would move away from the curb. And there would be 2 lanes for cars and trucks in the middle.
“huge amount of people” doesn’t exactly describe Red Hook. There’s not the density there to justify continuation of the B77 bus, much less the expense of fixed rail.
Flatbush Avenue south of Empire Blvd, where it wouldn’t duplicate a subway route, could make sense. Unfortuantely Flatbush Avenue from there to the Junction is so narrow that carving out room for the right of way as well as passenger boarding platforms, while still accommodating all the truck traffic that serves the street’s retail uses, won’t be easy.
Jaguar — why on 4th Ave? There’s already a subway there from the beginning out to 86th Street.
Flatbush on the other side of GAP might make more sense, especially given the traffic. Myrtle Ave would be a good candidate too, as would some type of dedicated cross-Brooklyn transit, like Ave H and Flatlands, or maybe Church Ave.
g_man — and the “Light Rail is Forever” is actually a huge positive if you are looking at transit from an economic development perspective!
Gman: If light rail was forever, we’d still have trolleys in Brooklyn. Apparently it isn’t forever. But assuming that it was forever, why not just use it on the heaviest transportation corridors? While I honestly don’t expect it to happen here, that doesn’t mean it is a bad idea. Most European cities have some form of light rail and it is very effective. Many of those same cities also have buses and some even have subways. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
OTOH, they are great on less busy streets.
There are streetcars in much of Toronto. I’m pretty ambivalent to them – kind of cute and better than nothing but don’t seem to do much a bus couldn’t.
Some run on dedicated rights of way, some don’t. They snarl traffic frequently either way when they are on the wrong kind of street (e.g. Queen St, which does not have a dedicated right of way is usually snarled. St Clair W, which does, is also snarled because it has to funnel traffic through fewer lanes).
Stick a few of these on Flatbush Ave and I might never go underground again . . . .
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/2834649986_48b75f3931.jpg