PS9 Proposed Changes Causing Unrest
After the controversial proposal to move a Manhattan school in Park Slope’s John Jay, there’s been talk about a similar proposal from the DOE to locate Brooklyn East Collegiate Middle School in Prospect Height’s PS 9 while it phases out the existing middle school, MS 571. As a parent writes to us, “This situation reflects…
After the controversial proposal to move a Manhattan school in Park Slope’s John Jay, there’s been talk about a similar proposal from the DOE to locate Brooklyn East Collegiate Middle School in Prospect Height’s PS 9 while it phases out the existing middle school, MS 571. As a parent writes to us, “This situation reflects a larger trend of schools facing problems when DOE shoehorns charter schools into their buildings.” The proposal cuts P.S. 9 access to the library, cafeteria, gym and schoolyard, with 4.5 hours a week of access to the Book Hive Library, which local parents helped create. It also looks like East Collegiate won’t cater directly to the neighborhood, but all of Brooklyn. Parents’ concerns, which you can read more about here, focus on the already-exiting problems of over-enrollment, the lack of resources to support three schools for the three years before MS 571 is phased out, and the environment at East Collegiate which runs “a very strict program for under-performing students,” according to the PS 9 blog. In The Brooklyn Paper today, a spokesman for DOE is quoted as saying that “[MS 571] has done horribly.” The public hearing on the proposal is January 24th, 6pm at 80 Underhill Ave. You can take a look at the flier after the jump.
morralkan,
You’re spot on about teachers needing unions. I’m a teacher and, honestly, have never really cared for the union reps in the schools I’ve worked in. However, I think dissolving unions will hurt students. Experienced teachers are better than new teachers. They really are. Also, part of the rationale for getting rid of unions is to fire teachers based on test scores, which will force teachers to focus even more on teaching to the test. It is a lucky student who has an experienced, tenure teacher who can both control the class and refuse to teach the process of elimination all year long.
Heather,
I liked your question to PS 9 parents about how they would feel about CRCS or A&L moving in there. One thing that is annoying me is seeing the very same names of people who signed the petition in favor of Arts and Letters now signing the petition opposed to a charter in PS 9. What’s that about? Parents really need to come together on this and support each other’s zoned schools. PS 9 parents should have been there for PS 20 and now parents from every D13 zoned school need to show up for 9.
But your kids have teachers who are in unions, correct? You say they go to PS 9 now, yes?
And you’re opposed to a charter school that does not use unions. Is this also correct?
“Your example about your friend in texas is pathetic – as if his salary and lack of benefits are only because there in no union representation.”
Sorry, if I misinterpreted what you were saying here, but you seemed to be implying that my friend is some kind of loser. Maybe that’s not what you meant. Care to clarify?
Heather,
You also should do more research before adding your two cents.
My thought about teachers is just an opinion not a plan. It was in response to your inciting remark about “what, exactly are you saying about my friend”.
Heather,
“It’s remarkable that you yourself have so much and yet are so bitter about unions.”
How is that statement you made based on something I said?
Unions affect a lot more than schools. Wake up.
Pig, I’m not trying to make any assumptions outside of what you yourself said. I am, however, skeptical of your brilliant plan to raise qualifications — and salaries. Would that be nice? Of course. Are unions sometimes corrupt and inefficient? Of course. So is Goldman Sachs. If you take them away tomorrow, does the situation improve? Really? Because from what I’ve seen, you end up with Texas.
I also think it’s strange that you send your kids to a school with unionized teachers, since you feel so strongly against them? Looking at the website for Brooklyn Collegiate, it appears that their staff is not unionized. So, isn’t that your ideal? Why aren’t you supporting that?
(You don’t have to answer that question, it’s obvious why you don’t.)
I don’t claim to be an expert on any of this, but I think there’s a lot of change being made under the battle cry of, “unions r bad!” And a lot of it might not be good, cheaper, or better for the kids.
bk_king makes an interesting point. I taught at PS 9 some 30 years ago. At its most overcrowded, the building had some 1840 students (K to 6 — I don’t believe we had pre-K at that time) on register. I’m not advocating stretching the building beyond its limits again, but I cannot fathom the reason for capping PS 9 at 650 now. Surely the elementary and neighborhood could handle 1000 students now. And, if Bloomberg is so concerned about having viable middle grade instruction in the neighborhood, expanding PS 9 to grade 8 would seem to be a good option. Studies have shown that whatever the grade at which students leave elementary school (generally, 5 or 6), their academic performance falls off during the following year at middle/intermediate/junior high school. Having children unnecessarily leave their home neighborhood to travel to far-flung schools adds additional transportation costs and travel time as well as discourages attendance, increases tardiness, and tends to result in poorer academic performance.
Co-locations are a fact of life only because Bloomberg insists on trying to emphasize the “servant†in public servant. If he can keep people worried about their job security, perhaps they won’t agitate against the vast “improvements†he wishes to impose.
There are many reasons why teachers, especially here in NYC, need unions. One poorly understood and often cited case is that of the “excessed teachers who cannot find jobs and are “sitting around†(not to be confused with the “rubber roomâ€) instead of being assigned a regular instructional program. Previous to the Bloomberg takeover of the schools, all principals were assigned an allotment of teachers, guidance counselors, etc based upon the number of students at a school, with some variance for special ed. These teachers were assigned with no consideration as to salary (based upon years of service and educational preparation). Schools might purchase additional teachers or other positions based upon “average position salary.†Now, principals must consider the actual cost of every teacher they wish to employ since they must pay for each one out of their budget. As a result, principals are very wary of hiring a new, older teacher because that person may cost twice as much as a new teacher. It has nothing to do with quality, per se. A principal may really need another second grade teacher, for example, but not have the funds for any but the lowest paid one, thus leaving an excessed teacher (often from a closed-down school) with no place that will or can afford to hire him. If these teachers cannot find a job after one year, then Bloomberg wants to fire them. Some reward after 15, 20, or 30 years of service!
The more schools Bloomberg can shut down, the more he can refresh the teaching staff with young, cheaper teachers who can be fired at will and who will therefore be loathe to rock the boat. There are lots more reasons why unions are important, but this situation is a prime one that touches on some of the problems brought up under this posting.
The DOE makes decisions based on numbers. Lets look at the numbers.
21,824 people reside in Prospect Heights as of the 2010 Census. The neighborhood census tracts also correspond to the DOE’s local zone for PS 9.
1,719 elementary age students live in PS 9’s local zone.
605 of those attend private schools.
714 elementary age students attend public schools else where in the city.
594 elementary students attend PS 9. Note: not all current PS 9 students live in Prospect Heights.
There are over 1,100 elementary age students in Prospect Heights alone who could potentially attend PS 9. The vast majority of these parents want to send their kids to PS 9 but the DOE has capped the enrollment of Pre K – 5th grade at 650 for the next 3 years to make space for a Middle School. How is this good policy for the local neighborhood?
well_pHed,
Well stated and can certainly speak for me…
I have already been pulled through the bush backwards regarding schools with my oldest now in high school.
Heather,
You assume a little too much about me and what I have. You know far too little about unions and their place in business and politics to speak intelligently on the matter.
I think teachers are underpaid and under-respected in this country. For that we need higher standards not unions.
We need to raise the qualifications for those who go into education and raise the rewards as well.