I appreciate your effort to clarify, and set the record straight. But, as usual, I have a few things to say in response.
In terms of mischaracterization, this statement “Did you live above a crack corner? Are either of you a minority? Did you have to defend yourself for survival?” — your response to my “rude” “questioning*” your contributions was the one that really set me off. (*”Why because you went to college and lived in ENY? PUH-lease. How exactly does this give you a larger perspective than most?”)
First, I wasn’t questioning or asking you to outline your accomplishments/contributions, I was questioning your assumption that you have a larger perspective than most, and asked you explain that specifically. So let’s get that straight to start with. I was hoping for a little elaboration, because, frankly, I see you as rather blindered in some respects and having a rather surprisingly narrow world view given your stated experiences.
In fact, my answer to your grossly misbegotten and thinly veiled-bigoted question is yes, pretty close to it. You’re clearly making many many astoundingly incorrect and highly insulting assumptions about me regarding personal experience/history and perspective. My point is we all fight our own wars in this life, legion. Tread lightly, best not to assume you know the whole story about anyone, including me. But please, excuse me, by all means, go on thinking that my life was bon-bons, cute bouncy puppy dogs, a perfect family, and a pink lacy bedroom like every waspy white woman has, while you were down in the trenches fighting for your life. You certainly aren’t the first to make those type of assumptions about me, and you won’t be the last.
“The hyperbolic and bombastic persona I exhibit on the OT is a means getting my point across more directly.”
Yes, your statements are hyperbolic and bombastic and as such, rather than making your point more clearly, lose much of the impact that they might have had if you were more even-handed/less heavy handed.
And while you may have a certain unique perspective/ experience, it certainly isn’t the only perspective/experience, nor is it any more valid than that of another person. And to compare your battles in this life due to your place in the world to the Kennedys who’ve lost many lives due to their place in this world, is just plain weird to me. It expresses some bitterness and lack of essential human understanding. In a way, one might suppose that you would find some comparison, simpatico or understanding of what that would be like to be in danger on a regular basis, for different reasons but not dissimilar experience.
“Let me start by saying that I deeply respect the contributions made by the Kennedy family to this nation. Several gave their lives for this country, including a President. They have suffered much tragedy. They have also known much triumph.”
— A delightful bit of backpedaling!
When I say that I think you have a chip on your shoulder, a statement which I stand by, what I mean is this. While I cannot/do not question in the least that you have worked very hard, and built yourself up, contributed generously to your numerous communities, where others have tried and failed or perhaps haven’t even tried or been able to persevere, you present your success as something to be lauded over others in order to discount their statements/experience, over and over. It belies a certain disconnect with/lack of understanding of the human race and everyone else’s battles, in what (for almost everyone, at some point) is not an easy life. And I really, boy do I ever, enjoy poking you (and benson) for that reason alone.
“I enjoy the community that has developed here on brownstoner and I realize that everyone here is a greatly accomplished individual in their own unique way. If anything, I think that’s what the varied group of posters have in common. Frankly, I’m fascinated by the diversity of opinion and experience on this web site. That’s why I spend so much time here in the first place.
I realize that we disagree often and sometimes too loudly
but in the end, it’s nothing personal.”
— One of the first balanced statements I’ve heard from you. I agree. Bravo.
“My “complaint” about the Kennedys yesterday came in response to rude questions by cobblehiller and bxgrl about my own worth and my own “contributions” to this country. ”
Again legion, you’re making stuff up. I am not reposting what I actually did say yet again because you simply will not read it. I never questioned what you or your family has done- if you want to take what I said that way, that’s a problem I can’t fix for you. Other than that, your long post was well written and it’s good to know- but being bombastic and hyperbolic will only get you like in response. If that’s not who you really are, why do it? Slopey is never bombastic and hyperbolic yet when he posts it rivets our attention. He makes his points without trying to draw blood with every sentence.
The one time I actually did question what you and your family have done for this country was after you made a comment implying that people who don’t agree with your politics (libs and dems) were not really patriotic. I took and take great offense at comments like that especially given the service my family has done. As I said, bombast and hyperbole will only get you that in return.
Most of us came from hard upbringings, legion. Many of us have faced disastrous events in our lives and got through them. You should take pride in your accomplishments- you worked hard and you deserve to be acknowledged for that. What you shouldn’t do is assume no one else has worked as hard, or gone through less than you, or that your life experiences allow only you to render your opinion on certain issues. Most of us are very intelligent, educated people – you need to stop talking down to us. You need to stop declaring you are the harbinger of truth- because there is no one truth when it comes to people or politics.
Lastly- I think it’s wonderful what you have made of your life. It takes a rare person to do that. Don’t ever think I don’t realize it.
Benson, you ask why “should” he have to explain etc…..he doesn’t….I guess he just decided he wanted to. Which seemed to be pretty generous of him in my humble opinion. Anyhow, Benson, I hope you enjoy this beautiful day. I was delayed and now I am hitting the road to see my friend. See you….
Try cleaning the grout with a toothbrush and comet with bleach. That should do the trick.
Donatella;
I’ll agree that “apologize” was the improper characterization wrt Legion’s post. Explanation, or justification of his position, better suits the situation.
This correction doesn’t take away from my larger point about the distorted logic at play here. Why should Legion have to explain his position and worldview after he is subjected to gratuitous ad hominen attacks? Who has the responsibility in this issue?
UGH! i dropped a can of green paint on the white tile kitchen floor weekend. it was a NIGHTMARE cleaning it up and it splattered everywhere. i was able to get it all up except now the grout is green! i cant seem to get that off. my roommate and his boyfriend are getting home in a few hours and i want to make sure this is clean but i cant get the green out of the grout! clorox didnt even work. what do i do? will a mr clean magic eraser work? im not even sure how i managed to spill a gallon of green paint 🙁
Thanks for that Legion, it was beautifully written and very interesting. I would love to talk to you sometime about your local political and civic activities. Benson, I think that Legion’s post is more about explanation than apoology, an attempt to clarify. Neither of you needs to apologize. I also agree with Legion that the OT is full of very accomplished and interesting people which makes it so irresistable even when it gets rough. And it does get rough here.
Off to start my day running around. I’ll go visit a friend in New Jersey. My car got screwed literally yesterday – a big nasty screw got stuck in a tire, so had to get it fixed last night so I can do my road trip today.
Legion and I are told that we have am enornmous chip on our shoulder, and I’m interjecting myself for taking part in the discussion? I’m being negative for responding to an unprovoked ad hominen remark?
quote:
Most of us are very intelligent, educated people
lol
*rob*
quote:
Most of us are very intelligent, educated people
lol
*rob*
Legion,
I appreciate your effort to clarify, and set the record straight. But, as usual, I have a few things to say in response.
In terms of mischaracterization, this statement “Did you live above a crack corner? Are either of you a minority? Did you have to defend yourself for survival?” — your response to my “rude” “questioning*” your contributions was the one that really set me off. (*”Why because you went to college and lived in ENY? PUH-lease. How exactly does this give you a larger perspective than most?”)
First, I wasn’t questioning or asking you to outline your accomplishments/contributions, I was questioning your assumption that you have a larger perspective than most, and asked you explain that specifically. So let’s get that straight to start with. I was hoping for a little elaboration, because, frankly, I see you as rather blindered in some respects and having a rather surprisingly narrow world view given your stated experiences.
In fact, my answer to your grossly misbegotten and thinly veiled-bigoted question is yes, pretty close to it. You’re clearly making many many astoundingly incorrect and highly insulting assumptions about me regarding personal experience/history and perspective. My point is we all fight our own wars in this life, legion. Tread lightly, best not to assume you know the whole story about anyone, including me. But please, excuse me, by all means, go on thinking that my life was bon-bons, cute bouncy puppy dogs, a perfect family, and a pink lacy bedroom like every waspy white woman has, while you were down in the trenches fighting for your life. You certainly aren’t the first to make those type of assumptions about me, and you won’t be the last.
“The hyperbolic and bombastic persona I exhibit on the OT is a means getting my point across more directly.”
Yes, your statements are hyperbolic and bombastic and as such, rather than making your point more clearly, lose much of the impact that they might have had if you were more even-handed/less heavy handed.
And while you may have a certain unique perspective/ experience, it certainly isn’t the only perspective/experience, nor is it any more valid than that of another person. And to compare your battles in this life due to your place in the world to the Kennedys who’ve lost many lives due to their place in this world, is just plain weird to me. It expresses some bitterness and lack of essential human understanding. In a way, one might suppose that you would find some comparison, simpatico or understanding of what that would be like to be in danger on a regular basis, for different reasons but not dissimilar experience.
“Let me start by saying that I deeply respect the contributions made by the Kennedy family to this nation. Several gave their lives for this country, including a President. They have suffered much tragedy. They have also known much triumph.”
— A delightful bit of backpedaling!
When I say that I think you have a chip on your shoulder, a statement which I stand by, what I mean is this. While I cannot/do not question in the least that you have worked very hard, and built yourself up, contributed generously to your numerous communities, where others have tried and failed or perhaps haven’t even tried or been able to persevere, you present your success as something to be lauded over others in order to discount their statements/experience, over and over. It belies a certain disconnect with/lack of understanding of the human race and everyone else’s battles, in what (for almost everyone, at some point) is not an easy life. And I really, boy do I ever, enjoy poking you (and benson) for that reason alone.
“I enjoy the community that has developed here on brownstoner and I realize that everyone here is a greatly accomplished individual in their own unique way. If anything, I think that’s what the varied group of posters have in common. Frankly, I’m fascinated by the diversity of opinion and experience on this web site. That’s why I spend so much time here in the first place.
I realize that we disagree often and sometimes too loudly
but in the end, it’s nothing personal.”
— One of the first balanced statements I’ve heard from you. I agree. Bravo.
— cobble
“My “complaint” about the Kennedys yesterday came in response to rude questions by cobblehiller and bxgrl about my own worth and my own “contributions” to this country. ”
Again legion, you’re making stuff up. I am not reposting what I actually did say yet again because you simply will not read it. I never questioned what you or your family has done- if you want to take what I said that way, that’s a problem I can’t fix for you. Other than that, your long post was well written and it’s good to know- but being bombastic and hyperbolic will only get you like in response. If that’s not who you really are, why do it? Slopey is never bombastic and hyperbolic yet when he posts it rivets our attention. He makes his points without trying to draw blood with every sentence.
The one time I actually did question what you and your family have done for this country was after you made a comment implying that people who don’t agree with your politics (libs and dems) were not really patriotic. I took and take great offense at comments like that especially given the service my family has done. As I said, bombast and hyperbole will only get you that in return.
Most of us came from hard upbringings, legion. Many of us have faced disastrous events in our lives and got through them. You should take pride in your accomplishments- you worked hard and you deserve to be acknowledged for that. What you shouldn’t do is assume no one else has worked as hard, or gone through less than you, or that your life experiences allow only you to render your opinion on certain issues. Most of us are very intelligent, educated people – you need to stop talking down to us. You need to stop declaring you are the harbinger of truth- because there is no one truth when it comes to people or politics.
Lastly- I think it’s wonderful what you have made of your life. It takes a rare person to do that. Don’t ever think I don’t realize it.
Benson, you ask why “should” he have to explain etc…..he doesn’t….I guess he just decided he wanted to. Which seemed to be pretty generous of him in my humble opinion. Anyhow, Benson, I hope you enjoy this beautiful day. I was delayed and now I am hitting the road to see my friend. See you….
Rob;
Try cleaning the grout with a toothbrush and comet with bleach. That should do the trick.
Donatella;
I’ll agree that “apologize” was the improper characterization wrt Legion’s post. Explanation, or justification of his position, better suits the situation.
This correction doesn’t take away from my larger point about the distorted logic at play here. Why should Legion have to explain his position and worldview after he is subjected to gratuitous ad hominen attacks? Who has the responsibility in this issue?
UGH! i dropped a can of green paint on the white tile kitchen floor weekend. it was a NIGHTMARE cleaning it up and it splattered everywhere. i was able to get it all up except now the grout is green! i cant seem to get that off. my roommate and his boyfriend are getting home in a few hours and i want to make sure this is clean but i cant get the green out of the grout! clorox didnt even work. what do i do? will a mr clean magic eraser work? im not even sure how i managed to spill a gallon of green paint 🙁
*rob*
Thanks for that Legion, it was beautifully written and very interesting. I would love to talk to you sometime about your local political and civic activities. Benson, I think that Legion’s post is more about explanation than apoology, an attempt to clarify. Neither of you needs to apologize. I also agree with Legion that the OT is full of very accomplished and interesting people which makes it so irresistable even when it gets rough. And it does get rough here.
Off to start my day running around. I’ll go visit a friend in New Jersey. My car got screwed literally yesterday – a big nasty screw got stuck in a tire, so had to get it fixed last night so I can do my road trip today.
Have a good day, everyone.
Arkady;
Legion and I are told that we have am enornmous chip on our shoulder, and I’m interjecting myself for taking part in the discussion? I’m being negative for responding to an unprovoked ad hominen remark?
I give up.