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“that definition of American Exceptionalism brings with it an overweening arrogance and supreme confidence that we are somehow better than the rest of the world, and therefore, whatever we do is justified. ”
In other words she has a problem with American exceptionalism as defined by Palin and you and benson. She has never denied that America is a great country or its place in the history of the world. Why you insist on arguing points that were never made I don’t understand. Nor did she deny the Constitution is a remarkable document. really- you need to pay attention to what people are actually saying, not what you think they are saying.
Legion, again you are tilting at non-existent windmills. I have never said we are not exceptional as a nation. We are. I never said otherwise. And I well know that the opportunities granted here are not available in many other places, and I know that someone from humble beginnings can achieve greatness here.
But this is first of all, true in other places. That list of countries may be short, but there is a list. We are not the only place success, freedom and greatness happen. If it was, then there would be no immigration to any other country but here, and obviously that is not true.
Secondly, that has nothing to do with the ability to look at what we are doing as a nation and question our policies. That’s one of the great things about this country, granted, but also something shared by many of the other democracies of this world. It IS overweening arrogance to think we have a lock on exceptionalism. We do not.
The technological advances you list are part and parcel of the work of people in many countries, with many languages, skill sets and ideas. The United States does not live in a vaccuum, nor is it high on Mount Olympus gazing down on the lesser beings. I repeat what I said originally, countries/societies that think they are superior to everyone else are destined to fall. We can advise, we can lead others, and persuade them to follow on the strengths of our national character, words and deeds. When we go beyond that and start to force people to become like us, we get in bigggg trouble.
“I deny the idea that this nation has not been able to learn from those mistakes and grow stronger for the lessons learned from them.
These facts are self evident in the transformation of our culture, our politics and the make-up of our population.”
Point out exactly where MM says differently.Give me the exact sentences where she supposedly says she does not think this country is great.
“You absolutely have no idea what you’re talking about because you certainly aren’t comprehending what MM said”
bxgrl,
To be clear,
MM stated she had a problem with the idea of American Exceptionalism. I don’t.
..and yes, I am well aware of the influence of the Magna Carta and other sources on the Founding Fathers.
What I am arguing is that there is something special to the living document that these men designed. Something worth advancing and denoting as a powerful step forward in mankind’s societal contract.
“And regarding the reading of the Constitution – a nice civics lesson until you get to the part where they left out the nasty bits, like slavery, the 3/5ths clause, women’s rights and other pieces of history that don’t make us look good. A true reading of the Constitution, AND the Bill of Rights AND the Amendments would have shown that we have evolved, and have learned a thing or two in the last couple of centuries. THAT would have been impressive, especially to the outside world. That this country, great as it was at the idealistic beginning, made some serious mistakes, but had the wisdom and fortitude to change them. Not just leave them out like we were perfect from the get go. Our history tells differently, and good history should bear witness to the truth, the WHOLE truth.”
MM,
I don’t deny the ugly history of this nation.
It is written in the blood, sweat and tears of millions of individuals. Much like all of man’s history.
I deny the idea that this nation has not been able to learn from those mistakes and grow stronger for the lessons learned from them.
These facts are self evident in the transformation of our culture, our politics and the make-up of our population.
The idea that this nation has, like a growing organism, molted from it’s old skin into something larger and stronger.
Legion- it doesn’t matter how those countries became democracies- the point is they have a peaceful transfer of power. WW II isn’t the point. Jeez- did you ever learn how to debate in school?
But if you want to talk about the true origins of democracy you are going to have to go to Europe- try reading the Magna Carta, for instance. Did you think the Founding Fathers did this in a vacuum?
legion- you really are sorely lacking in understanding. MM never said there is nothing exceptional about this nation, but you can’t seem to put this into any context. And you don’t speak for the majority of people in the US or the world so don’t try. You absolutely have no idea what you’re talking about because you certainly aren’t comprehending what MM said. Instead you’re interpreting and doing a bad job of it.
“And for the record we aren’t the only country that does this- how about England, Israel, France, Denmark and a host of others? Please, use some logic.”
England: Who we saved from certain demise at the hands of the Germans during WWII.
Israel: A nation which Americans helped to forge out of the ruins of WWII.
France: Who learned the idea of Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite from our own Revolution 15 years earlier. From which they developed their “Droits du Homme”.
See also WWII.
Denmark: Who has flourished along with the rest of Northern Europe for the past 60 years under the protective umbrella of America’s military strength and our NATO pact.
Exceptionalism.
Legion, most of the democracies of the world have the “peaceful transfer of power according to the will of the people”. It’s a wonderful thing, but we hardly have the patent on it.
And regarding the reading of the Constitution – a nice civics lesson until you get to the part where they left out the nasty bits, like slavery, the 3/5ths clause, women’s rights and other pieces of history that don’t make us look good. A true reading of the Constitution, AND the Bill of Rights AND the Amendments would have shown that we have evolved, and have learned a thing or two in the last couple of centuries. THAT would have been impressive, especially to the outside world. That this country, great as it was at the idealistic beginning, made some serious mistakes, but had the wisdom and fortitude to change them. Not just leave them out like we were perfect from the get go. Our history tells differently, and good history should bear witness to the truth, the WHOLE truth.