Noise Annoys, Rugrat Edition
The most frequent noise complaint real estate lawyer Stuart Saft hears nowadays concerns kids. “Fifteen years ago or so, it used to be that the noise complaints were all about loud stereo and TV equipment,” Saft is quoted as saying in a Times story about the pitter patter of tiny feet driving neighbors crazy. “Now…
The most frequent noise complaint real estate lawyer Stuart Saft hears nowadays concerns kids. “Fifteen years ago or so, it used to be that the noise complaints were all about loud stereo and TV equipment,” Saft is quoted as saying in a Times story about the pitter patter of tiny feet driving neighbors crazy. “Now it’s kid noise more than anything else, and I think it demonstrates the changing demographic of the city. You have more kids living in the apartment buildings, and parents who feel their children have the right to be children.” The story focuses on people like a Slope couple with two kids who try to keep their children from running around before 8 a.m. because their downstairs neighbor finds the tots’ noise “exhausting. Even my boyfriend doesn’t ever want to come over — it’s so horrible.” Another Slope mom says she “probably tried a little too hard” to keep her kids quiet and not upset neighbors when, at the end of the day, “They were not doing anything outrageous. They were just doing normal kid things. But small children, especially toddlers, have this clumsy flatfooted walk. It’s impossible to control.” The article says noise carries in a lot of prewar construction, especially in smaller buildings, and when apartments are renovated or combined, the end result is often the loss of some insulation. Some co-op boards install sound meters in apartments to determine if neighbors’ complaints are warranted, though the most frequent solution appears to also the most time-trusted when it comes to New Yorkers and their tight quarters: Compromise. “We do indeed walk on eggshells, and I find myself on tiptoes if I have high heels on, even when I’m not home,” says another Brooklyn parent.“I’m a trained monkey. But my 19-month-old is not.”
The Noise Children Make [NY Times]
Photo by Joey Harrison.
Um, if apartments aren’t built to accommodate normal living practices such as sleeping and/or walking — shouldn’t you be angry at the LANDLORD, not the neighbors? Or if landlords somehow are not responsible for their buildings, how about the building code?
1:51–
I agree that opinions do differ. But facts and events do not. Something either happened or it didn’t. And the overblown stories I read every time this topic comes up don ‘t come close to matching what I’ve seen with my own eyes living in Brooklyn for so years. And others are so generic that I’m certain they’re nothing more than composites of things people have read in other blog threads like this one. I think that’s why you get comments like “video or it didn’t happen”–these claims are so obviously trumped-up that someone has to call B.S. on them.
By the way, I say all this as a parent who’s stricter than most of the Brooklyn parents I know–and I agree that wishy-washy parenting and empty threats only encourage bad behavior. That said, the brownstone Brooklyn I always read described on blogs nowadays looks nothing like the one I actually live in.
2.17, like an earlier poster pointed out, when you say “entitled” you are meaning the exact opposite of what you intend to say.
If they are entitled, then no one can complain, it’s their due, their right. You mean self-entitled, which is something completely different.
No one cares about your (unreliable) anecdotes; No one cares about how good your parents were (or you mistakenly think they were); and for sure no one cares about your nieces and nephews.
Old people have been complaining about the ‘younger generation’ for all of history – and actually unlike other periods of history – in terms of societal norms the last 40 years or so have actually been pretty stagnate (moving to more conservative) – so the only logical conclusion isn’t that people have changed – its that you have gotten OLD.
Park Slope Liberal for ya:
“If only these parents would take a lesson from the poorer black moms we all get to see at places Target etc…. When your kid acts up you have to yell and curse at them in a very loud voice, if that doesnt work call them names like “idiot” and “asshole” and finally when you get really frustrated it is time to beat the crap out of the little devil right there in public…”
Whoa! Reading this thread has made me thirst for a beer.
Into the double-wide kids. Please point out the old kid-hating plodders and the other miserable, wormy losers (just like we practiced). Ramming speed!
And … here we are, Candy-Ass Central, the bar. Get daddy a beer and then go knock some things off those shelves over there. But be careful not to get caught on video.
To the ass that suggested that I videotape other people’s children behaving badly in public places “This is the You-Tube age so, video or it didnt happen” my blackberry doesn’t have a camera and that is a sure fire way to get some mom to call the cops on you if she sees you taping her kid. Totally qualifies as creepy behavior, not to mention being pretty freaking rude in and of itself.
I’m 43 not 65 and my parents liked their Rolling Stones but were not counterculture freaks, not divorced and not unaware of what we were doing. Sorry some of you had such a crappy childhood.
And we weren’t perfect kids but the difference is that if we had a tantrum or tested the boundries in public places, we had one chance to behave or we were removed from that place immediately. I do see parents “trying” but reasoning with a young child as if an adult doesn’t often work. If we were of an age if our normal baby/toddler behavior may not be good for the setting, then we were not taken to places like restaurants that catered more to adults. As we reached an age of being able to be reasoned with, we got “do that again and we are leaving” and then we left if we persisted. It only took once or twice to realize my parents were serious and we learned to behave. What I see as trying is a lot of empty threats or kids being in places that aren’t meant for kids and either not supervised well or so clearly out of their element that they can’t possibly behave. Not really fair to the kid or the people around him. There wouldn’t have been such a long blog post about kids in bars in Park Slope if it wasn’t happening.
I’m not anti kid -have many nephews/nieces and friends kids who are cute, smart, funny and delightful. They misbehave too but it isn’t allowed to persist in public or at home without consequences.
While I have no trouble believing that there are some really entitled parents out there, I’ve really never seen them among my peers and neighbors. Actually, I usually see people being too controlling with their kids. The over-scheduling and over-parenting is sad. I hope to be a little less overbearing when I have kids.
The only mom I’ve seen acting like an entitled jerk was an Orthodox Jewish lady with eight children, who cut into a very long security line for an early morning flight at JFK. When I confronted her about it, her excuse was that she had already been on line, but that she and her brood had stepped out of it to buy some magazines. She told me that because she has eight kids, she could step into the line wherever she wanted to. She felt completely entitled to cut in front of at least forty people, because she’d whelped out eight little ones in rapid succession. Well, a cockroach can do that, too. And lest I be accused of anti-Semitism, let me stress that my ancestors were Hasidim. Having that many kids is environmentally irresponsible, acting like it makes you special is obnoxious. She ended up having to wait in line longer than anyone else in the end, because of all the kids and their attendant baggage. But, in defense of the actual children, they were perfectly fine. It was Mameleh who misbehaved that day.
West End Avenue kid from the 70’s and 80’s raising hand here – we were very middle-class on WEA too, 1:47. My dad was an electrician and my mom a social worker. It was a very different neighborhood back then. I miss it. It was nice. Nothing but pleasant memories.
@1:16 (the 39-year-old). My brother or my sister, you speak truth to power. I’m also 39. We, Gen X, have been categorized by the media as “the most ignored generation in American history” (Maybe so. I sure do know a lot of people our age who pretty much raised themselves while their parents were off getting self actualized). Say what you will about us, but we make good parents. I have a kid. She is charming and delightful and doesn’t jump on the furniture. She does act like a 3-year-old (but since she’s 3, this is to be expected). The parents I know are devoted to their marriages and their children, teach manners and boundaries, and take the job of parenting seriously.
The absolute worst noise experience I ever had was living under a violinist who decided to “renovate” her apartment (this was in a converted Brownstone, rental) by pulling up layers and layers of linoleum and carpet (looking for hardwood) until she reached the subfloor, at which point she decided she didn’t have enough money to finish. So she just clomped around ON THE SUBFLOOR, practiced scales for 12 hours a day, and had band practice. When I asked her to please stop so I could put my infant to sleep, she said no. She had until 10pm to play, by law. We moved. Life’s too short.