Carroll Gardens Historic District May Grow
The Landmarks Preservation Commission released the boundaries of the expanded Historic District it is pushing for in Carroll Gardens and, not surprisingly, not everyone was pleased. The city would like to expand the pitifully small area that was protected back in 1973 (shown above) to include all the blocks bounded by Court Street, Henry Street,…
The Landmarks Preservation Commission released the boundaries of the expanded Historic District it is pushing for in Carroll Gardens and, not surprisingly, not everyone was pleased. The city would like to expand the pitifully small area that was protected back in 1973 (shown above) to include all the blocks bounded by Court Street, Henry Street, Huntington Street and First Place. Sounds like a nice idea to us but there are bound to be some whiners, right? Right. “Landmarking will force the old-timers out,” said John Esposito, co-founder of Citizens Against Landmarks. “All the new people who have $100,000 income a year think this is a great idea.” (This choice of this number seems reminiscent of Dr. Evil’s famous “one million dollars” line in Austin Powers; after all, it’s not like $100,000 a year goes too far in the Carroll Gardens housing market these days!) The plan for expanding the historic district is supported by the Carroll Gardens Neighborhood Association and the Brooklyn Preservation Council, and seems to be in keeping with the spirit of last year’s rezoning which made it harder to put up new out-of-context buildings in the low-rise community. No-brainer!
City Wants Second Carroll Gardens Historic District [NY Post]
Yes, benson, but you were saying it was just Italian west of Smith, and that simply wasn’t the case.
“I’m still waiting for ONE person to back up their claim about the supposed hostility of the Italians in Carroll Gardens.”
Please benson, You weren’t HERE! LOL!
You were in Bensonhurst, Gravesend or wherever you grew up. Pete and I were here in the 60s/70s. All demographics give you are NUMBERS. We’re people, we know what we saw, felt, were exposed to! Talk to some old time guys, and they will tell you who they chased off their block!
It was WELL KNOWN that certain blocks were to be avoided if possible unless you knew someone on that block! The hostility was real! The Italian kids on the block I live on NOW used to TERRORIZE us! It’s soo well-known. Why do you even try to pretend it didn’t exist? Ask any old timer and they will tell you about the bat they kept under the stoop!
Pete;
You are right. I was just being touchy, and personal stories are a perfectly legimate statistic for making assertions about a neighborhood.
Since you think everyone’s stories above were just fine and dandy, I’ll take Bxgrl’s template, and apply it to my own story:
We were always nervous walking in Crown Heights because we had bad experiences there. Once, when riding my bike there a group of kids threw stones at me and yelled “Honkey”, and my dad was almost beaten up when he tried to get his stolen car battery back, after visiting my mom in the old Brooklyn Jewish hospital. I never had any Puerto-Ricans say anything to me ever. And I would also like to point out that some of the worst violent crimeocurred in Crown Heights, and Bed-Stuy. Both, I am sorry to say, heavily black.
This is not a blanket condemnation of blacks, by any stretch. I’ve met wonderful Blacks who are warm, funny, and haven’t a bad bone in their body. I count many of them as friends. But it is irresponsible to deny that there was a racial problem in those neighborhoods. It is what it is and denying it helps no one.
This is for you, Benson. It’s a KNOWN FACT that Carroll Gardens was an area known for race problems. It’s not just a stereotype…it was true.
Denying it would be like saying there have never been any problems in Crown Heights with regard to race relations. Thankfully both areas are doing better, but denying what existed is only keeping us from progressing further.
http://www.theawl.com/2009/07/caroll-gardens-then-and-now
But even back then, the plan for the canal’s redevelopment was running into obstacles. For one, the area, which was zoned for manufacturing, provided 11,400 jobs. For another, the housing component of the plan, as envisioned by the neighborhood association, would be integrated public housing. “The possibility of an influx of nonwhites into the area worries many residents of this solidly white, working-class area. They are cautious about expressing themselves on racial issues. They say, instead, that the neighborhood is too small to support a high school, or that they fear a ‘wild crowd’ in the area.”
Everyone knew there was no point in going to the cops about these things – this was before bias or hate crimes. No-one I know ever actually got hurt in any sltercation, and as for a smashed windshield on that block with no witnesses, well that’s just a waste of police manpower, isn’t it?
And sorry if you misunderstood my comment ditto; I just assumed the distinction was pretty obvious to most people. Obviously 20% of $1 million is more than 30% of $100K (combined city, state, and federal, including AMT).
“By the way, Pete and all, I’m still waiting for ONE person to back up their claim about the supposed hostility of the Italians in Carroll Gardens. All I’ve gotten so far is personal anecdotes.”
So in other words, those of us who have experienced it are lying? We had even been warned not to go into carroll gardens becuase people there were, shall we say, hostile to Blacks and especially offended by interracial couples. It may not have come to more than dirty looks and comments, or refusing to serve us, but it was there. Like it or not.
Babs – you did write “talking about how your average person making over $250K a year often winds up paying less in taxes than those of us in the-under-six figure bracket”
Perhaps I misunderstood, and if so I apologize, but that seems fairly unambiguously like dollar amount.
isn’t A1A guide some tourist thing? why use them?
I said not so much the same as you claimed or so different as Babs did. You know this city as well as anyone and that block by block things can be different. And nobody blamed any (one) group for ‘hostility’.
Why aren’t our personal experiences and recollections valid ?(as we all lived in the neighborhood and experienced it). Do you not use your own memory and experience for your opinions?
And nobody said ‘hotbed’ — or singled the place out.
Seems to me that you go super-defensive and put words in our mouths or intentions.
(jeez, and I even argued against the landmarking here).
“Surely if the area was such a hotbed of hostility there must have been some police blotter reports, or stories in the paper.”
Probably cause the Mob had them all taken down on the internet.