renovation reality check

okay, i’m new to this whole spending binge privilege also known as “renovating a brownstone.” we just had our first post nuptial sit-down with our architect, the one where they stopped fantasizing and started telling us our 400k would not be enough to build out our garden floor. we are NOT doing a gut, changing electrical, paint and plaster, replacing roof and renovating an owner’s duplex. i’m not talking wolf stoves and insert italian name bathroom fixtures. just basic good taste. how is it possible that 400k won’t cover this? any insight or wisdom very very appreciated.

pepvjnwizosknsq

in Renovation 11 years and 11 months ago

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anonymousmanhattan | 11 years and 9 months ago

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Karenanne9: does your GC have a website, ins etc?

pepvjnwizosknsq | 11 years and 11 months ago

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@karenanne9 wow, thank you for the recc (and the vote of confidence 🙂 I would love to talk to you – i’m out of town in new hampshire right now with terrible cell reception but could call you next week. please email me your contact info if you’re up for that. thanks!

karenanne9 | 11 years and 11 months ago

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This can definitely be done for under $400k, particularly if you are not going super fancy on everything. You don’t mention windows, which if you’re landmarked can be expensive, or new HVAC, which can also be expensive depending on what you do. I’d be happy to talk to you as someone who is finishing a more substantial (full gut of a duplex) project. I LOVE my GC and recommend him completely. He has been excellent at everything, good for his word, and the work is great. His name is Kenny Xiao, company is BMB Builders and he can be reached at 9175776544\. Email is kennyx@bmbbuilder.com

pepvjnwizosknsq | 11 years and 11 months ago

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@Boerumresident we are changing the c of o (decreasing it) and there are thankfully sprinklers already in place – the roof is one of the things we might fix now… it’s either roof or windows or… well, you know how it is… take your pick what you want to deal with now or down the road. there is asbestos but it’s in the basement and i’ve been told there’s an expensive (legit) way to get rid of it and a less expensive (less legit) way to get rid of it. what we are doing, which will cost a lot is: putting in 3 bathrooms, one kitchen and an internal staircase connecting two floors. also, the electrical is a total update.

Boerumresident | 11 years and 11 months ago

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Two thoughts — are you changing of the C of O? That might trigger the need to put in sprinklers, which can get very expensive if you (as is likely) need to change the water service from the street. Also, you mention replacing the roof? Is there asbestos?

SewardWasRight | 11 years and 11 months ago

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bleedingmoney: contact me at sewardwasright (at) gmail (dot) com

nycdesignerr | 11 years and 11 months ago

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400K will certainly do a builder grade reno for everything you describe.

ebsjb | 11 years and 11 months ago

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Last year I budget-renovated a 5 story, 4-unit brownstone in Bed-Stuy, with some key structural work, ultimately extensive electrical and plumbing upgrade, 3 new Ikea kitchens, 2 new Ikea bathrooms, and several new walls. Cost $300K. Fantastic contractor, Grand Renovation, and plumber Aladdin. Your architect is way off. Also, I chose all design details from the Home Depot, Lowes and Ikea in Red Hook/Gowanus, plus Park Slope Plumbing Supply– the first two’s style choices have definitely improved. Ikea has 20% discount sales on kitchens a few times a year, but do not buy your appliances with them, wait for holiday sales at HD and L.

masterbuilder | 11 years and 11 months ago

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Architects have different ways of packaging drawings and finish schedules for bid. We would be happy to give you a free line-item estimate to help your understanding of cost. www.bgrbuild.com

pepvjnwizosknsq | 11 years and 11 months ago

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@SewardWasRight we are in clinton hill, so hopefully we’re not getting the park slope inflation tax. did you like your contractor, and if so would you feel comfortable passing on their contact info? thanks!

Augustiner | 11 years and 11 months ago

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Take the architectural plans, and get some bids. Make sure they are detailled construction plans, not just filing plans. It should be around 150 per sqf for the work you describe

curated | 11 years and 11 months ago

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@bleedingmoney It sounds to me like you’re architects while good at design and hopefully the expediting process can not give you accurate estimates. Feel free to contact me if you’d like to discuss further. These are the types of projects we specialize in. http://brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/curated

BSDOD | 11 years and 11 months ago

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Wow, this is crazy

pepvjnwizosknsq | 11 years and 11 months ago

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@curated the only structural work we’re doing is putting in some stairs which are priced out around 15-20k. a lot of money, but not 400k! also, i think your assessment of the architect’s take is dead-on. they seem very honest and realistic and have said themselves that they are not good at anything more than an estimate of the overall cost. we are putting a new kitchen in as well as two (possibly three) new bathrooms, so that might be where i’m not understanding cost. thank you all for the responses, they’re really helpful

curated | 11 years and 11 months ago

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400k should be enough to do a renovation of the owners duplex along with the other items you described. It is my experience that most (not all) architects are very poor when it comes to estimating what a project will cost….and I say that having architects on staff. Feel free to contact us if you’d like us to review your plans and discuss further. http://brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/curated

cate | 11 years and 11 months ago

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$400 should be enough to renovate an entire house with a whole house electrical upgrade, plumbing upgrade, two new kitchens, three new baths, wood stripping, skimcoating, floor refinishing, painting, some minor structural work, fees and filing. Probably wouldn’t cover central air, opening up the back with a new steel structure, or building any kind of addition. Are you doing a lot of structural work? Do you need to redo all the beams, joists, and floors?

catboot | 11 years and 11 months ago

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Maybe I’m wrong, but isn’t one of the main roles of an architect to come up with a plan that fits the budget (within reason)? He or she being the person that has the vision to create something that can be accomplished within budget?

mousta | 11 years and 11 months ago

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Agree with Seward. It all depends on your contractor and finishes you choose. 400K sounds like a whole lot for what you describe. When you say renovating owners duplex are you doing kitchens and baths?

SewardWasRight | 11 years and 11 months ago

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We spent under $200K on ours doing maybe slightly less than what you are doing – four floor reno, no painting, creating a rental apartment (w/new kitchen and bath), redoing two large bathrooms, installing kitchens, building a deck, a lot of electrical and plumbing, &c. Two caveats: We had control over prices/quality of appliances and purchasing of supplies (floors, tiles, &c.). Also, our place is in Bed-Stuy. If you are in Park Slope or any of the other “fancier” neighborhoods, I believe a “you-can-afford-it” charge may be tacked on.