Remove walls on parlor level - cost?
I am sure this is at least an often desired, if not often done renovation. What is the approximate cost to remove the two walls on a typical parlor level of a brownstone. The one wall that runs parallel to the stairs (front to back of house), and the one that separates the two rooms. We would love an open space completely on this level. I assume both of these walls are load bearing – and would require additional support beams. What does it cost? Otherwise, how open can one get those two doorways without having to add additional support?
kcc414
in Renovation 9 years and 2 months ago
11
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11 replies
Guest User | 9 years and 2 months ago
Thanks!! Yes, us innocently admiring those moldings during what was meant to be a for-fun-only open house last year was basically what lured us into this whole money-draining affair. (We’ve just come out the other side though, and it’s totally worth it!) I’m sorry to say I don’t have a standalone figure for removing those walls: once we decided to have the column (so no $$$ structural changes / steel needed), that work was just represented in the budget in the overall numbers for demo and framing (i.e. nothing special). I know that’s not helpful if you’re considering this as a standalone project, but certainly if you’re doing a chunk of work in the house and opening up other walls etc., doing it this way if you can means it won’t be one of those eye-popping extras. (To be super clear: I am merely a homeowner, so am just going on my understanding gained during this one renovation experience.)
kcc414 | 9 years and 2 months ago
gwrfgp – wow!!!! Not only is that helpful, its GORGEOUS!!!! Those moldings! Unbelievable! Thank you for sharing the pictures! Can you tell me what the cost was (approx.) for this type of thing?
Guest User | 9 years and 2 months ago
We just did something like this. Our original plans were to completely eliminate the wall beside the stairs, but it was not worth it to us for the expense, as it required adding steel (I can’t remember exactly how much this was going to cost, but at least $10k, maybe $15k). Instead, we kept a pillar down the middle, which meant the two openings could have wood headers — a negligible additional amount to the renovation costs. I’m really glad we went this way in the end, and not just because of the money: it makes much more aesthetic sense with the moldings (see pics) and gives a complete sense of openness even with the pillar. I think removing that wall was the most impactful thing we did on this floor, and really didn’t cost anything extra. (FYI, there was already an archway rather than a wall between the two rooms, so we didn’t have to do anything there.) Hope this is somewhat helpful!
cate | 9 years and 2 months ago
You must put in alternative means of support, you must hire an architect (or an engineer), and the job must be filed to be legal. (The cost and work of merely removing the walls is negligible — some demo and some disposal.) You’ll probably also need to refinish the floors so you don’t see where the wall was, do some plaster patching, painting, etc. Most often all of this is done as part of a bigger renovation. I’d estimate $15,000 as a starting point. . An alternative to consider is whether you might prefer to enlarge the existing openings rather than take down the walls entirely. It depends on the space, of course, but IMHO, nine times out of 10 this is a more aesthetically pleasing option. Done correctly, it should also make the space appear bigger — and yet still equally open. . It probably won’t be less expensive, though — depends!
kassie319 | 9 years and 2 months ago
Recently removed a 14′ load bearing wall at the back of my house – left the hallway wall in place. Installing relieving beam in the basement ceiling, steel column and LVL/ flich plate beam in place of the wall on 1st floor cost roughly 10k, but there was some other framing work involved in that. That number doesn’t include demo, finish work or engineers fees.
kcc414 | 9 years and 2 months ago
Thanks for all of the replies! I know it isn’t a small repair by any means, but it would make such a difference in the feel of the space. Ballpark of how much it would cost? I know there are MANY variables.
Lurker | 9 years and 2 months ago
Having done this removing one wall in a 20 wide building and the wall was like 18 feet long in a rowhouse, it’s not insane to do, but it costs a lot and if you were to go the whole length of the building it might be an even bigger deal, especially if you consider plumbing and electrical as Xagor suggested—for existing electrical you might need to reroute and rewire the entire floor above, plus potentially rerouting and if you have a gas line running upstairs…. Obviously an engineer would be mandatory, but for instance it might be possible to run steel beams as joists between your party walls every 10 or 15 or whatever feet and then have beams running between them, and avoid columns. Though columns might be a great way to have a chase to the upper floor(s).
carmenf | 9 years and 2 months ago
soundhoner- replacing joists with any amount of metal will surely help, but it still depends on span… at least according to our structural engineer, but he’s kind of a stickler. Our GC thought we could get away without posts/footings but our SE insisted based on our span (21′), and we’re only 3 above-grade floors. YMMV and, as I said, I think our SE is overly cautious (but that is his job, right?)
soundhoner | 9 years and 2 months ago
Isn’t it typical that replacing wooden joists with c-joists in the ceiling above allows for (or perhaps permits) more of a wall-less / open concept parlor floor? I never thought about the cellar floor requirements as mentioned above, but it makes sense.
carmenf | 9 years and 2 months ago
To echo xagor: one of those walls for sure is load-bearing and one of them may or may not be (but is a stiffening wall, at the least.) Depending on the span of your building, you may be able to get away with using wood to transfer load from the floors above (if you’re only 13-15′ wide, you may be fine.) If your house is wider, you’ll likely need steel in some capacity and, yes, you may also need posts with cement footings into the cellar. This is likely not a small renovation task.
espeon | 9 years and 2 months ago
Zeke, hate to be a wet blanket but removing those walls completely is rather ambitious so definitely not often done. I will not suggest a cost, which is impossible without knowing what’s there and a design is in place by an engineer, but there are a few issues to be aware of. The structural solution will partially depend on the floors above and the loads must ultimately be transferred to the party walls. Those walls to be removed contain wiring and plumbing so that’s something else to relocate which means channeling the party walls or furring out. Enlarging the openings to some extent is more managable but then you’re essentially creating columns and loads must still transfer all the way to the cellar.