Neighbor called the DOB on my current project

I randomly went to the NYC DOB website and searched my address. I noticed that there was an open complaint from last week. The caller stated that there is digging going on in backyard to create a door and beams are being replaced. This is not accurate. I am currently renovating my living room and kitchen. New sheetrock, floors, cabinets and appliances. I do not want an open complaint or potentially a violation on my property. I also do not want the DOB coming into my house. This house is over 100 years old and I am sure they will find something “wrong”. What are my options?

someonecalleddob

in Renovation 11 years and 7 months ago

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justinh | 11 years and 6 months ago

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williamsburgguys: Ahh, that makes sense. I missed the update where OP mentioned the recessed lighting.

williamsburgguys | 11 years and 6 months ago

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I’m not sure it’s the walls so much as the kitchen and recessed lighting. Anything electrical is supposed to have a permit. Walls, maybe. Depends on if they are structural or were added later to simply partition something off or if you are adding new walls to create new smaller rooms out of larger spaces. Who knows from the original post. If the kitchen is going to involve moving plumbing or gas lines or adding or changing electrical, etc then yes those require permits. Flooring and cabinets no. Taking down old paneling, repairing plaster, etc no. But everyone is correct, don’t ever let them in.

justinh | 11 years and 6 months ago

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> … my work always fell under the no permits decorative category …

Somewhat related question: What constitutes “decorative” or a “minor alteration”? nycdesignerr says OP’s work requires permits, presumably because of the walls? I’ve seen various lists include flooring and cabinets as “minor”. Is there a canonical list of what work does or does not require permits and DOB hoops? I found a list on the DOB website that mentions a few things, but is far from exhaustive. I’ve been reading through the building code itself, but I don’t know that I have enough years left in my life to fully understand it 🙂

Putnamdenizen | 11 years and 6 months ago

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I really have to disagree with nycdesigner. While it is true that your unpermitted work never heals itself – letting DOB in is hardly “medicine.” They will fine you and make you rip things out, etc. Obviously SOME buyers might balk at buying a house where work has been done on the sly. But many other properties (especially in a market like this one) sell “as is.” Cross the bridge about doing other projects in the future when you come to it. But then again maybe I’m just trying to put a pretty window box on my glass house…

nycdesignerr | 11 years and 6 months ago

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The DOB is like a strong medicine that you have to choke down. Let them in and get it over with if you ever want to sell or rent the home. Your current project DOES require permits and you should have dealt with contractors who pulled them. If you have a future project that for sure involves permits, and they can see questionable previous work (like no GFCI’s in the kitchen) you run the risk of getting red flagged until this past work is addressed properly. And if you want to ever sell, an educated buyer will want to see where the permits were issued and closed out properly. Sure, you can go the route of not letting them in. But, that’s only if you want to live there forever and never have any other projects to be done again.

Townie | 11 years and 6 months ago

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I used to be a painter, interior work, no scaffolds, so my work always fell under the no permits decorative category. I have had it out with a few DOB inspectors over the years over “neighbor’s” nuisance complaints. Dealt with two dozen complaints in three days once. Think of the DOB as vampires, they can’t hurt you unless you invite them in first. Don’t invite them in. Remember complaints are not violations. You don’t have to answer the door. If you answer the door by chance you can politely refuse to let them in. They will post an official notice (LS-4) stating they were denied entrance and ask you to call and make an appointment to reschedule an inspection. On this notice there will be threatening language stating an access warrant will be issued if no one calls. Remember inspectors can legally lie to gain access. After being unable to make an inspection they will attempt another inspection. Maybe even a third, after which they will close out the complaint. End of story, until another different complaint is filed and the whole thing starts over again. Now if you really did do some outrageous work without a permit the possibility of being issued a violation will always hang over your head, which is why I advise you to hire licensed and insured contractors to file for work requiring permits. The DOB asks the public to be its eyes and ears concerning unsafe work. Just a few days ago a rear wall fell off a building on 16th Street undergoing unpermitted demolition. A 311 complaint was previously filled and inspectors were unable to gain access so the complaint was closed. As to your question digging in the rear yard, ect, does not require an inspector to enter your home. Is there a way to see the rear yard from some other vantage point? That would settle the complaint once and for all.

justinh | 11 years and 6 months ago

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How does “don’t let them in” work? Can you answer the door yourself and say “I’d rather you didn’t come in to inspect”, or do you just ignore the buzzer and hope they go away? How does the DOB enforce anything if all it takes to get them to leave you alone is to pretend you’re not home?

daveinbedstuy | 11 years and 6 months ago

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They have to see debris or signs of construction or activity. A compalint won’t be an issue at a sale, only an actual violation. Don’t let them in.

brucef | 11 years and 7 months ago

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Nope

someonecalleddob | 11 years and 7 months ago

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also, from a previous post, http://brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/forums/topic/dob-complaint/ , john stated “A DOB inspector will swing by your place. If there is any visible sign of construction that requires a permit, a violation will be issued with a stop work order. If they don’t see anything, they will close the complaint.” What constitutes “visible sign of construction”?

someonecalleddob | 11 years and 7 months ago

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brucef, thanks for the feedback. we’re almost done (about a week left) until the new contractor comes to install the cabinets and appliances. at this point do you think its worth letting them in and showing there is no digging going on in the backyard.

rd684 | 11 years and 7 months ago

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Can someone please confirm that DOB really closes out complaints after 3 attempted visits? Will these unresolved complaints be an issue when filing to do new work in the future? Or when trying to sell? I have a similar situation and both my expediter and contractor said I should let them in and get it over with, especially since I have plans and permits. But I’m worried it’ll open a pandoras box.

brucef | 11 years and 7 months ago

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New kitchen triggers permit, as well as touching a receptacle. Cabinetry no, but 25 other things they have done already surely crossed the line.

someonecalleddob | 11 years and 7 months ago

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I spoke w the DOB earlier, anonymously, and she said the inspector will be sent out twice and if they can’t get in they’ll close the case. Do you know how long they keep it open?

Putnamdenizen | 11 years and 7 months ago

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Yeah, I think some of that does. Which is not to say that others of us aren’t living in glass houses (which we renovated without permits).

someonecalleddob | 11 years and 7 months ago

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I don’t think other work required permits. New floors, walls, kitchen (yet to be installed). We are having recessed lights installed. I just don’t want them inside. Also the complaint said digging in yard, completely untrue. I just shot a video in my yard w today’s newspaper. Lol

Putnamdenizen | 11 years and 7 months ago

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Do you have permits for your other work? Do you think you should?

someonecalleddob | 11 years and 7 months ago

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ok i wont let them in. i told my contractors not to open the door if anyone knocks. if for whatever reason, someone opens the door, do they just need to say “the owners are not here, cant let you in” ? or will that prompt more visits?

bedstuytownhouse | 11 years and 7 months ago

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After three failed attempts on their part, they close the case. Just don’t let them in, like PD said above.