Help: Is this legal for a co-op to do (regarding holding up renovations)?
Hello – would love to get your thoughts on these two issues:
(1) I am renovating and my co-op will not let me install an HVAC on the roof. Perhaps 20% of the tenants in a small 8-story elevator building have one installed, but they said they stopped that process years ago and wouldn’t let me install one despite there being racks available. It was not written in the documents, it seems informal. I asked them why and they said they do not need to tell me why (I think it’s a Board member’s personal reasons). Can they legally do this? I thought we all had the same rights and rules as a share member.
(2) When I bought this co-op, the manager said I could install a side-hanging HVAC unit. The Co-op has declined that request as well but again said they do not need to tell me why (they did approve someone else’s a long time ago but it was recently removed due to unrelated issues). This seems I have less a case here, but what do you think?
Thanks again – this renovation has been frustrating and would love to get some incite. Thanks!
wueyaacmrrqwyfh
in Renovation 3 years and 3 months ago
11
Please log in, in order to post replies!
11 replies
helen40
in Renovation 3 years and 2 months ago
This is why we ran for the hills right before a closing on a co-op in Brooklyn Heights. The board began to make unreasonable demands wrt to maintenance, asked inappropriate questions about childcare, and if we were aware “of the upcoming assessments.” Once they demanded a year of maintenance in escrow, we were able to extricate ourselves from the contract. The co-op remained empty for years after that.
We knew if we were starting out like this, it would only get worse and a board without our interests at heart would control our largest asset. No thank you.
irfan | 3 years and 2 months ago
Thanks am a NY lawyer. The coop is generally protected as long as it’s making decisions in good faith for the benefit of the coop. Seemingly Arbitrary decisions can be evidence of bad faith, but not always. you’ll need to look at the coop docs to see what is and is not permitted and what has been decided in meetings, etc. Maybe the rules changed or there was a meeting where the board decided not to approve any more AC units. Maybe the board decided to consult with the top floor unit holders before approving more ac units due to noise. There’s no way to know one way or the other without learning more. And just because they’re not telling the owner why they’re saying no doesn’t mean they’re doing something “illegal”. Annoying and rude yes, but not necessarily something the owner can “win” if the board can point to a good faith basis for the decision.
brokelin | 3 years and 2 months ago
Not conflating anything – the coop docs are not the sole source of law governing what a coop can do – there are also those things called laws, and those things called courts that issue opinions that interpret the law and how it is applied.
It seems that the original poster has already made a decision as to what they are doing anyway, not actually looking for help, perhaps just to vent.
Though it also seems they may have been given a reason – that there’s too much noise caused to the top floor unit. While not clear if this is noise from the construction phase, or increasingly more noise in their unit as ACs were added. If it is the latter, does not the coop have to balance the needs of owners of various units to enjoy their units – or does one person’s desire for AC trump any impact to another person’s unit?
wueyaacmrrqwyfh | 3 years and 2 months ago
Thank you “doors” really appreciate the incite. My big fear is that because a lot of my renovations require board approval (like moving certain lines, moving the kitchen), the board can be vindictive and make my life a living hell. So trying to balance that and getting the AC done. They really have the power – I personally feel it’s because the board president lives under the top floor and doesn’t want additional noise up there.
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 2 months ago
i would call a condo/coop lawyer and put these two questions to them:
“if the board had an informal (unwritten) policy that allowed the installation of these units on the roof, would that fact imply that they still have that policy unless they somehow noted a change to it in meeting minutes or in other documents?”
if the answer is “yes”, ask “could it be possible to mount a successful challenge to them if they decline to allow the installation?”
when you get your answers, you will know how much time you want to put into this.
in so far as the manager, i would ask who gave them the authority to say that you can mount a wall unit and ask when was that authority rescinded and if they had not been told it had been rescinded, i would go back to the board and ask they why they failed to advise the manager of that. maybe the board never told him he could say that. i would tell these people that you bought that unit with the assumption that you were going to be permitted to install a/c and the manager had made it plain to you that you could and you are not happy.
i once worked for a condo complex and my boss, the owner of the property management firm, was at the top of his game along the coast of north and south carolina. the nonsense you are being put through, it would not have been allowed to happen. that’s not to say everyone got what they wanted, but the lines were clear and everything was noted so no one felt like anything was arbitrary or discriminatory.
see if you can familiarize yourself with some of the laws that regulate HOAs in NYS so you can know the difference between what they can and cannot do and what is just crappy management.
do not take no for an answer until you are told that it can not be done by a third party whom you trust and whom you are paying (a lawyer experienced in this field).
irfan | 3 years and 2 months ago
I think Brokelin is conflating what’s “right” and what’s legally required at least based on my experience. Our coop is very transparent and flexible with owners. But the coop docs don’t include any obligation for the board to permit work even if it would be legal and don’t have any obligation that the board give a reason for saying no. This is consistent with the other coop offering docs/leases I’ve seen (n=5 or so) As a matter of practice we don’t say no to anything that’s reasonable and work with owners to get stuff done quickly because that’s the culture of the building. But that’s not everywhere and the quickest way to change that is to get involved. That’s obviously a long term process though.
brokelin | 3 years and 2 months ago
The answer that they don’t have to tell you the reason indicates bad management. That is the law that applies to turning down new applicants who aren’t yet owners – you don’t have to give them a reason (though there have been moves to change that through new law as it can hide illegal discrimination), but that isn’t how boards operate once you are in – good management will share what’s going on with actual owners – there’s something definitely wrong with that answer and thus with the management of the building (which is not uncommon), or the board member who told you that may be confused and misinformed (also not uncommon.) Push for the reason – and consult with a lawyer about your options.
Actually, if AC is something you need, moving again may be your best bet. Being on the board just puts you in the way of more unpleasant confrontation with that board member, and the problem is never just one board member – if it is just one board member against you, that shouldn’t affect the board’s decision – unless that person insists that board decisions must be unanimous (wh ich I can pretty much guarantee isn’t what is stated in the bylaws), and is holding power over other members to vote with them out of a fear of what they will do to them if crossed – by definition, a dysfunctional board (I’ve been on THAT board) – it may be that you would have to change the entire problematic portion of the board and vote multiple members off in a group effort, which may or may not be possible in your building – it may be a years long effort even if possible, as most people don’t want to put in the work of managing a building (even many who are elected to boards.). You yourself might be one of the people who doesn’t want to do that work – it’s a time suck, and a thankless task, and if you don’t attend to the building’s needs once on the board, you risk having more problems with the building (or you may just get a free ride on the other board members who are willing do all the work that board members disinclined to do the work aren’t doing.)
And there may be a logical reason for the change in policy once you find out why the policy was changed – like an engineering report that the building can’t take any more weight on the roof as currently constructed – I can’t think of another legit reason for stopping AC installs – unless there have been other issues, but those should be more easy (or less costly) to fix. (And if you were to get on the board and insist on getting your way without the building being structurally sound for the install, that wouldn’t be a sensible approach to take to your investment in the building, as you are legally responsible for the decisions the board makes.)
Which is why if a change to a unit was something I definitely needed to do, I wouldn’t buy a coop unless I had it in writing from the board in advance that that change I sought was allowed (not that you are ever likely to get that, but you could get a discussion that would leave you reasonably confident that you could make the change), as you can never count on what a board with do.
irfan | 3 years and 2 months ago
Your easiest and quickest solution might be to run for the board. Worked for me 😉 good luck
wueyaacmrrqwyfh | 3 years and 2 months ago
Thanks J – makes sense unfortunately
irfan | 3 years and 2 months ago
No way to know the answer to this without having a lawyer review the coop docs. The board probably has broad ability to say no for any reason or no reason.
wueyaacmrrqwyfh | 3 years and 2 months ago
Bump 🙂