Help – basement gaming room renovation (Brooklyn brownstone)
Hey everyone,
Turning my dry but ugly basement into a gaming/media room.
Roughly 12×22 ft, 7ft ceiling, concrete floor, cinderblock walls, one egress window.
Main issues:
Gets humid in summer
Low ceiling + noisy floor above
Want it cozy but not dark/dingy
Quick questions:
Best cheap-ish flooring that handles a little moisture?
How to soundproof from upstairs without eating headroom?
Lighting tricks for 7ft ceiling that don’t suck?
Portable dehumidifier enough or do I need a mini-split?
Pics of the current mess attached.
Hit me with ideas, regrets, contractor recs — anything!
Thanks!
chloereed
in Renovation 1 month ago
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9 replies
amt230 | 1 month ago
I had good success finishing my entirely below grade cellar, and heard all the same advice (which I do not disagree with) but ultimately have learned my project was successful because of where my home is located. That is, we’re on the ridge (terminal moraine) that runs through BedStuy, so it is downhill every direction (but one, for a block) from our house.
This allowed me to take a more low fuss approach to finishing the space, which I’ll describe, but if I didn’t live on a ridge, I don’t think it would at all have been possible or worth it to have maintained this as livable space.
We have a rat slab, no vapor barrier, and use those interlocking padded carpet tiles (yes, that’s right, carpet in my cellar – you can imagine how people responded when I floated that). The tiles are great bc we use the space as our kids play space and our media/movie space, so it provides cushion for kids, insulation from the slab, was by far the cheapest option, and if there ever was a water issue I could pull up the necessary tiles (which are poly) to dry. So far, our worst water situations find their source from my daughter’a wildly impractical Stanley bottle she insists on using 🙂
We didn’t do anything to insulate the ceiling for some of the concerns identified here, but now that we’ve been using the space I cannot imagine any soundproofing that would be effective. Its foot traffic inches above your head, not much you can do about that – but I think your best option is use rugs upstairs to address any areas of particular concern.
We have a mini split down there (which is same for whole house) though we don’t use it regularly, primarily when down there. I installed an air quality meter to monitor the space and it is also open to the upper floor by stairs (no doors).
The only realistic option for us was can lights, we’re at like 6.75 feet, but I find them non offensive (I will admit I’m fussy about lighting). I do think you want LOTS of lighting working down there to compete with the fact that it is a cellar. That you have a window is a HUGE win for you, the limited natural light we get changes the feel significantly to avoid dark creepy basement vibes – we had to cut a hole in the floor above to get light in. But, every day we get a small sliver of direct sunlight into the cellar.
Happy to share any of our experience, but again, our success has come down to the fact that our house is located as it is. If I had the threat of backups or moisture in that space it would definitely change my experience with it. Be mindful of where you are and the reality of what happens in storms so you’re finding a fix that will work for you and your house. When I talk to people in park slope about having renovated my cellar with carpet I can see the color vacate their face as their mind wanders to the last time they waded through backups from a rainfall (likely every season). Our house has been fine for years, but just a few weeks ago that storm brought a lake to our neighbors down the ridge on Throop and Fulton. NYTimes had an article that included simulations that was interesting to see and put visual models around what I’m describing here.
Good luck!
Brownstone Home Inspection | 1 month ago
@maggie.oldfather:
are those tiles on below grade slabs? and was that slab finished a certain way to receive them?
the concern here is not leaks but high moisture in the concrete. concrete sitting on soil carries a lot of moisture which will most likely interfere with the adhesive (house flippers, who are naturally averse to spending money and doing things correctly, always put ceramic in the cellars because they know that water will create problems with anything else and could ruin flooring before the house is sold) .
Many of these slabs in these houses, mine included, have “rat slabs” which are rough finished. the finish is so rough on these that (without the mortar bed that ceramic tile sits on) it would be hard to get anything else to sit flat and firm. if op is lucky, someone poured a slab and finished with the intent of laying something over it (and this could be another reason flippers use ceramic; it comes with its own mortar bed).
Op, you may wish to get a moisture meter and begin looking at the moisture content of the concrete. but know that pin meters and cheaper pinless meters do not often read correctly on concrete.
cate | 1 month ago
I might be getting mixed up, but I think I am actually thinking of a more modernized house more north in the neighborhood that was on the Prospect Lefferts Gardens tour. In any case, many homeowners have had this done, it is not cheap, and the more successful ones seem to be part of big renovations with architects and engineers. If you dig down, you need permits and a properly licensed contractor or your house and others attached to it could partially collapse. I get the impression that just a proper slab with a moisture barrier could be $40,000 (????) so depending on the scope of work, it might be $40,000 to $100,000 or so (????) to include French drains, pump or HVAC, and maybe more if you waterproof exterior walls from the outside.
BobMarvin | 1 month ago
The PLG house Cate mentions certainly isn’t a
“chespish” renovation. It’s next to my house snd I was stationed there during the house tour. It is the most wonderful renovation I’ve ever seen, but a contractor was working there for well over a year.
maggie.oldfather | 1 month ago
Not sure where this falls in your “cheap-ish” request but I have had great success with luxury vinyl tile glue-down installations on concrete slabs where there’s ongoing leaks. Definitely cheaper than ceramic tile!
If you do the dehumidifier, definitely recommend one that can be piped into a drain somewhere so you’re not constantly emptying.
cate | 1 month ago
You might want to add windows too, and some kind of air exchange, if it’s feasible.
cate | 1 month ago
I also toured the cellar of a house in Bed Stuy that had been dug out and a moisture barrier installed. It appeared to be utterly dry. It wasn’t finished. It seemed really clean. The owner was in the building trades so he was an expert.
cate | 1 month ago
I second what Steve is saying about needing a moisture barrier and new slab. You could go on some house tours and talk to homeowners with finished cellars about what they did. Also while I think you could probably do this yourself, it might make sense to at least talk to and possibly end up hiring an architect (and through them an engineer) who’s done a lot of cellars. On the last Prospect Lefferts Gardens tour, there was a house with a finished cellar that was just like an above-ground space. Obviously they had a moisture barrier, probably French drain in case of emergency, constant HVAC, and maybe they even did something to the walls. It was impressive.
Brownstone Home Inspection | 1 month ago
are you talking about a cellar or a basement? a cellar is at least 50% below grade at the curb. unless you do something to that floor, such as rip the slab up and have water proofing install UNDER it and pour a new slab, there is a good chance you will always have moisture problems there (which i suspect you know). ONE decent dehumidifier will take the humidity out of the air in a space that size but that does not mean you will still not have moisture coming in through the walls and up through the floor, through the concrete. so ultimately, you will not want to put a glue down floor in a cellar nor will you want wood (this is what a wood floor will do: the moisture will hit the underside of it and cause it to expand and the dehumidifier will dry the top out and cause it to shrink and the flooring will curl across the grain; i am not sure if putting a moisture barrier down on the concrete and setting wood off the ground on a grid will do the tick but somewhere, someplace, there is someone who knows). what we see in many cellars that developers convert into rec rooms is tile floors. the tile floors over concrete can handle the moisture.
a dehumidifier will handle that small space fine. it will be a pain in the neck to drain and they do make little pumps for HVAC condensate that can pump this water up and out through a waste connection or utility sink.
the pic from the current situation did not come through but if this space is unfinished at this point, be aware that if you intend to put rock walls up, unless the moisture is addressed from where it enters behind, on the foundation, you will have issues. even using “negative side” water proofing, you will still have issues at some point because that can possibly fail during the lifetime of a wall and then you will have issues with mold growing in the cavities between the wall and the foundation.
be aware that we are not supposed to insulate the ceilings in these spaces because it can trap moisture (insulation is how you would deal with the noise). BUT I BELIEVE if you intend to “condition” the air by dehumidifying it or running a mini split (and i was on a home inspection where a minisplit had been running for some time in a cellar and the moisture content of the drywall down by the floor was 7% in some spots which is super low for anywhere in a house, let along the cellar) and you leave that humidifier (or mini split) on day in and day out indefinitely, you SHOULD be safe with insulation in the joist bays of the ceiling/floor above. But if you turn that dehumidifier off for some reason, you could end up with moisture in the insulation and that will be bad. you can also put a moisture barrier over the insulation but i am not sure how well that works.