Full reno on a brownstone

Wanted input on what grade cabinets and finishes you would expect in a brownstone rental , currently in the process of renovating a brownstone I inherited into a duplex . I started this journey last year when rates were relatively low and just got approved for permits . I made the mistake of waiting to refinance so my roi is going to take a hit . The floor plane is 2000 sq 3 bedroom 2 1/2 baths . I’ve been asked by the builders what finishes I want , are we tiling the whole bathroom or half , what appliances etc … so I ask is it worth going super high end . I don’t wanna spend all this money just for someone to wreck it .

john m

in Renovation 2 years and 7 months ago

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templetonsafes | 2 years and 7 months ago

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I don’t know, but good luck! It’s a big project.

cate | 2 years and 7 months ago

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And be sure the areas where the walls and floors meet are in good condition and caulked and/or reinforced with no holes for mice or roaches to come through before you install cabinets on top and can no longer access.

anotherposter | 2 years and 7 months ago

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High end items installed poorly is bad. You can go with more basic stuff but make sure the work is done well and you’ll have happier (easier?) tenants and less repairs down the road-tiles lined up well, grout done nicely, caulk where there should be caulk (instead of grout), the appliances are accessible (not opening into a tight corner), doors close and lock well, dimmers for lights are nice. A faucet doesn’t have to be super high end, but have good functionality (I hate super short/close to the back of the sink faucets) and any medicine cabinet doors should clear it. Easy to clean or easy to spruce up later is good for rentals (to me that’s things like, larger tiles and less grout, darker grout colors, etc.). You don’t have to drop big bucks to make it look nice if the workmanship is good and the styles of finishes flows throughout (similar finishes on all handles and fixtures and such). I’m not looking to rent at the moment but that’s the kind of stuff I appreciated. And lots of outlets and storage.

adamkidron | 2 years and 7 months ago

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Currently I heard $350 to $550 per SF depending on what finishes are selected. We worked with All Renovation Construction, they submitted an itemized detailed estimate which truly allowed us to make an intelligent decision on our brownstone gut renovation.

john m | 2 years and 7 months ago

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When I wrote this I hadn’t yet spoke with a realtor in this area nor thought about a designer but I have now made contact with 2 designers and will go from there . With the question about the roi when I wrote this I did the comps on my own but never thought anyone would pay the amount I was seeing on Zillow. After speaking to a realtor he Confirmed that what I was seeing is wha I should expect which is 7,500 a month to 10k

markwalker | 2 years and 7 months ago

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Please keep it simple and classic. I have gone to many an open house and been startled by the scary bathrooms! Avoid fads and trends like strong patterns on the walls ir floors., bright colors, Sputnik light fixtures. A washer dryer stack in a closet, a microwave, a high sink faucet,!a vented range hood, a dish washer and yes plain white spotless perfect bathroom with two sinks in a large vanity are all things that will please tenants and provide a sense of your place providing an up to date standard. Please do not “decorate” — the occupants will do it themselves.

cate | 2 years and 7 months ago

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Sounds like you could use a designer. Do not go with what your builder suggests. Check out the site Remodelista (especially their “10 Easy Pieces” and “Steal This Look” articles, and also this site’s The Insider column about renovation and interior design. I would say stick with simple, classic, and well made/sturdy for the finishes, not builder grade. When selecting bathroom and sink finishes such as tile, white will look good with everything. Other colors date quickly or can be offensive to some. Current mid range finishes could be white Daltile square or subway tile, American Standard faucets (also, anything heavy brass underneath and made in the U.S. will last the longest), and sink/tub fixtures by Elknay or Kohler or Duravit or Randolph Morris. You can get good plain lighting that is UL listed in many places including Rejuvenation, West Elm, Lightology, sometimes Wayfair, etc. (usually not Home Depot). As for cabinets and counters, for a rental, I agree basic Lowe’s cabinets are fine, perhaps with engineered stone or wood (such as from Ikea) counters. Plain white matte Ikea cabinets also look good though if they are not metal or solid wood they may not last as long. (If for resale, third party fronts are available from companies such as Reform.) Re the architecture, in most cases, it’s best to retain all the original walls, woodwork, finishes and features you can, and just update the mechanicals and wet rooms as needed. Houses with traditional radiators (not baseboard) and unobtrusive air conditioning will command a premium. For three-story, two-family houses, the most desirable configuration is an owner’s two-story apartment on the parlor and top floor over a garden-floor rental. (Of course, if you have a different configuration, it may make more sense to keep what you already have if changing it will be costly and time consuming.) Good luck with your remodel!

Rick | 2 years and 7 months ago

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( I’m a landlord for the last 25 years. ) Keep your renovation details nice but not high end . Tenants will put a great deal of wear and tear on your apartments . Appliances will be replaced more often than you think . Stoves most often because no one really cleans well enough . Large subway tile for the bathroom, easy install and simple to replace when repairs are needed. Dishwasher and washer dryers are a big deal for tenants, but best to put the washer dryers in the basement if you can. Basic Lowes cabinets are fine , I would consider stone countertops if you are in a nice neighborhood.

carolina-moscoso | 2 years and 7 months ago

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What rent do you think you will get to see a ROI on a 400k reno in a reasonable timeframe? Just curious where your mindset is and how you crunched the numbers.

john m | 2 years and 7 months ago

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I’m doing a lot more than that and yes I have a architect that I am working with . My reno is more in the 300-400k range not including finishes . I am planing on having a washer dryer , plans also call for an en suite . Reason it’s a lot is right now there are 2 stand alone apts 3rd fl and 1st fl . For some reason when my grandmother renovated the house she never touched the parlor floor which will now be the dining room , kitchen , living room , and below that will be the 3 bedrooms .

cate | 2 years and 7 months ago

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Are you just redoing the existing wet rooms or is it more than that? Are you spending more than $12,000? You will have a much better outcome and not spend more if you use an architect. ‘Course, sounds like it may be too late for that. As a former renter and current landlord, my preference is for plain, simple, classic and sturdy. I don’t mind plain white Ikea fronts, plain white square tile, American Standard faucets, etc. A washing machine could make or break a deal for me (if there are a lot of stairs and there isn’t a laundromat on the block). Incidentally, the cost of fridges have gone up a lot, to the point where a decent basic one is about $1,100 including tax and delivery. I noticed recently that there are quite a few vintage-style ones available at this price point and wish I had known before I bought a more standard one.

john m | 2 years and 7 months ago

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I appreciate the response , and yes my question was more towards the fact of trying to obtain the highest rent possible . I actually reached out to a realtor who works in this area and he pretty much confirmed what you said . Nice finishes but nothing crazy like wolf stoves or anything. I’m probably gonna go mid tier on everything this project is already adding up

andriywww1990 | 2 years and 7 months ago

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Even if this is a really nice apt, don’t put the best stuff in. You want nice looking stuff, not the best stuff. Even with bathroom tiles, simple white tiles will look fine. A decent mid range faucet that will appeal to the tenant you want to attract.

Some people may not know what good stuff is; it may mean nothing to them. When i was a tenant, i was happy to have a dishwasher and washer dryer; it did not matter what brand it was (though the selection was probably more limited back then as well).

I can tell you something else: i work in this market. I consider my customers to be well heeled professionals. I think of my work as costing a fair bit above average. I like to think of my work as top shelf. I know a lot about pricey wood work and fancy doors and paints and finishes. Unless it is a minor repair to a door, NOBODY is calling me to do work in rentals and if they did i would make them explain why they want me before i visited them. The same should follow through with the rest of the apartment, me thinks.

If you are asking this because you a re wondering if a certain quality inside will affect what you can get for the apt, i will stick my neck out here and say, location, location, location. If you are in a good area, you are going to get it anyway. I am not saying buy garbage and have monkeys do the tile work and painting, it still has to look good, but location will be the over riding factor. Adding the best stuff may not move the price much if at all (it might on 5th ave in manhattan). And the best stuff on the worst street in the city is not going to help either. Another thing, the kind of renter you want, someone responsible, perhaps with a young family, is probably saving to buy a house of their own so i wonder if they might be drawn to rent a tad lower in a nice area? But what do i know? I am just an itinerant carpenter; a realtor could better guide you with this sort of question.