Expeditor fees for an alt-1 and ADA bathroom requirements for a 2-family

Hi everyone, we just bought our first home recently: a 4-story in Bed-Stuy. I _thought_ I was being smart in getting a place with an existing 2-family COO (which is how we intend to use it), but unfortunately the COO explicitly states a layout of 2 duplexes (I didn’t realize they could have that level of detail–ugh) while we want garden rental + triplex, so it seems an Alt-1 is required. We’re still very early on (basically just started with the architect), and I have 2 different questions:

1. Just got the expeditor fee proposal and it’s coming in at 17-18k. Is that reasonable for a “full service” expeditor (ie doing all filings, coordination, and permits for an Alt-1)? It sounded a little high to me…but there aren’t a ton of precise numbers about this service, and what numbers I could find were from ~10yrs ago.

2. Our architect is really pushing for an ADA-compliant bathroom in the garden level rental. The current bathroom that’s there is definitely too narrow to be ADA-compliant, but otherwise is fine and semi-recently updated. I thought a 2-family wouldn’t have A DA requirements (not to mention there’s no way the garden entry is ADA-compliant), but they’re saying that with an Alt-1 filing + given we’re doing work on that floor anyway (adding some walls because right now it’s all open) + since we plan on renting it out, it’s likely the DOB wants ADA compliance. Does that sound reasonable? Has that come up for others in a 2-family?

Any guidance, anecdotes, advice, even meaningless comments appreciated! There’s a lot to learn and not enough money to not learn it, haha.

DazednConfused

in Renovation 3 years and 2 months ago

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DazednConfused | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Gotcha, thanks for the additional details! That’s good to know. If we weren’t applying for new DOB permits for our renovation, I prob wouldn’t be that proactive about getting our COO updated either.

weng33 | 3 years and 2 months ago

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We did not. We did have an open permit at closing for which money was set aside in escrow. We lived in the house for 2 months when DOB came for the final construction sign off for which the developer showed up as well and later got the money in escrow. No mention of COO was brought up.

DazednConfused | 3 years and 2 months ago

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@JP, just wondering, did you do any DOB-permitted renovations after your purchase?

weng33 | 3 years and 2 months ago

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For what it’s worth — we bought a 2 family townhouse: duplex with garden apartment below but the COO describes a 3rd story apartment with a Duplex below. We raised it with the developer and our attorney. To fix, we needed to pay an extra 10k to update the COO, but we decided not to. Apparently it’s pretty common to have have wrong descriptions in the COO after years and years of renovations. We were told as long as the COO is for a 2 family, we should be fine. (Of course the risk is that a future buyer won’t be happy about this and may back out of the sale.)

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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I would try referencing the document that establishes the method of calculating the value of the building. Google 1-RCNY 3606-01. It very clearly states the most recent final assessment roll.

Also, make sure you’re using the formula provided in that publication (it looks confusing, but it’s not really so bad), AND THEN MULTIPLY THAT BY 1.25 as directed in the building code definition of the “VALUE (OF EXISTING BUILDING OR SPACE). The value of an existing building shall be determined at the option of the applicant on the basis of one and one-quarter times the current assessed valuation of the building, as adjusted by the current State equalization rate…”

jaskin | 3 years and 2 months ago

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@ithaca, understood, thank you! I will talk it over with my expeditor for sure

Guest User | 3 years and 2 months ago

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I imagine the rules are different for 3-unit buildings and 1-family, which is what we are turning our house into. All I know is that when we were going through this our expeditor wrote: “This examiner will not allow the application to be approved without sprinklers, apart from this calculation. D and I got her to say that if the cost of construction (that she established) was less than 30% of the cost of replacement of the entire building, then she would approve the application without sprinklers. It appears to be the only way.” We got the figure and the permit was approved without sprinklers.

jaskin | 3 years and 2 months ago

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@jimhiilra, I saw you comment on a few posts on sprinkler requirements! Do you have any suggestions for getting around the requirement? The DOB is not accepting the 2021-2022 final tax assessment value and are insisting we use the tenative 2022-2023 value, which was $200k less. From my review of the code, I believe it clearly states they use the “final” value, so I am a bit lost for solutions.

jaskin | 3 years and 2 months ago

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@ithaca, did the DOB push back on using non tax assessment documents for building/land value calculations? We are running into the sprinkler requirement issue on our 3 unit townhouse renovation.

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Happy to help!

cate | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Thank you, jimhillra for clarifying. Very interesting!

DazednConfused | 3 years and 2 months ago

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@jimhillra @bobjbkln @cate, appreciate all the additional details and clarification about Alt-1s. That’s a good point about the garden floor level no longer having access to the parlor exit–that will be the case for us in our configuration. Also my [current COO](https://ibb.co/XFyRYW3) is annoying explicit, so yes, do think we’d run into the consistency issue pretty quickly. Given all this, I do feel more at ease proceeding with an Alt-1.

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Cate, with the caveat that every case is different depending upon the actual configuration, I would assume the unit that was the lower level of the duplex would no longer have access to the parlor floor exit, so this would be a change of egress, therefore an Alt 1.

It would also have to do with the C of O. If the building has one, it will show which floors make up the individual units. The new configuration would no longer be “consistent with the current Certificate of Occupancy”, which is one of the triggers for an Alt 1 in the new DOB NOW filing system. [Screenshot 2022-02-28 111539](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s1/:brownstoner:CZ7P:screenshot20220228111539.jpg.jpg)

Exits to the rear are not typically an acceptable means of egress unless it’s a fire escape, which a deck is not because fire escapes must also provide access to the roof.

cate | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Jimhillra, is it possible that keeping a two-family but switching from double duplex to triplex over rental won’t change egress and thus could be done with an Alt-2? After all, they’re still going to be using the same three exits and the same doors and hallways to access those exits (because this is a townhouse). If they intend to have a parlor floor exit at the rear (via a door in a former window) to a deck or staircase down to the garden eventually, perhaps they could add that in at a later date.

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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OK, that’s weird. I just looked it up online. In your screenshot it shows up as an Alt 2, but it’s actually filed as an Alt CO (which is the new name for Alt 1). I’m guessing it’s a glitch with the notification system to which you’ve subscribed. It’s probably just not synched with the new DOB NOW filing system. Here’s a screenshot of DOB NOW:

[Screenshot 2022-02-28 111539-0](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s2/:brownstoner:L4gE:file_0screenshot20220228111539.jpg.jpg)

shahnandersen

in Renovation 3 years and 2 months ago

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@jimhillra — This is not my expertise, and I haven’t delved into the DOB files. But here is the statement from the weekly status report showing that it is an Alt-2. It is a DOB NOW job. [2s_001_NYC Department of Buildings Weekly Job Status](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s2/:brownstoner:hBcv:2s_001_nycdepartmentofbuildingsweeklyjobstatus.png.jpg)

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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The change in C of O has more to do with the configuration and egress than use. The grounds for an Alt 1 vs. Alt 2 is a “change in use, occupancy, or egress.” Use and occupancy have to do with the fact that it’s residential and two-family, which don’t change, but converting from triplex in most cases results in a change in egress, thus the Alt 1.

@bobjbkln – There must be something else going on there. There are provisions under which you can combine dwelling units under and Alt 2, but only in a multi-family that stays a multi-family (3 or more) after the combination, but going from a 3-family to a 2-family is an Alt 1 no matter what. Either someone is misrepresenting the circumstances, or someone is misinterpreting the code.

Have you looked at the DOB application? Is it a pro-cert job?

DazednConfused | 3 years and 2 months ago

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@bobjbkln: Oh wow, good for them. I’m not super hopeful we’ll be able to go that route/it’s a risk we want to try taking with an examiner, but I’ll at least mention it to the expeditor. Thanks!

shahnandersen

in Renovation 3 years and 2 months ago

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FWIW the building next to me is being converted from a legal 3 (Lower duplex under 2 floor through apartments above) to a two family (Triplex with a garden apartment). It has been approved as an Alt-2. Seems like more of a change than yours and they got their approval.