Doing DIY Legally

What are people’s experiences doing small renos themselves in the city? I’m looking to buy and would likely want to do some reno myself. From what I gather from other posts, I can hire an architect to formalize my plans and file for permits. I know I can’t touch electrical and most plumbing myself, but does anyone have experience say adding a closet or a doorway themselves using the proper channels? What about a job where you do some work yourself but hire a pro (like an electrician) for just the required parts?

Note that this will be my own building, so no condo or co-op rules to worry about. And for bigger stuff I would certainly hire a contractor. But I’m pretty skilled with the above work so I want to save money wherever I can within the bureaucracy. (And yes, I know I’m opening a can of worms.)

alexwithak

in Renovation 3 years and 11 months ago

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cate | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Be aware also that if you do something without a permit that requires one, you may have issues selling the house later.

jimhillra | 3 years and 11 months ago

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There is a provision that allows combination or separation of apartments in multi-family dwellings. There are several caveats, one being that going from three-family to two would be a chang in the occupancy group, so definitely an Alt-1.

That said, you said you were reallocating space from one dwelling unit to another. That’s different and definitely requires filing, but not an Alt-1. The main reason for filing will be egress: does the new layout meet egress codes. Secondly, zoning. There are minimum sizes to dwelling units. Removing the room could violate that minimum, so the DOB has to check to make sure that doesn’t happen.

alexwithak | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Hmm everything I’ve read, including the DOB site, indicates that combining apartments does not trigger an Alt 1 or require a new CoO. But yes you’re right about making sure everything is up to snuff on the building. I’ve already seen a bunch of paperwork and old permits from the reno done 10 years ago and will make sure everything matches up if we decide to make an offer.

cate | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Reconfiguring the apartments as you describe definitely requires an architect (or engineer) to file an alt-1 permit, expediters to get it through, and the hiring of a licensed electrician (who will file their own permit for the electrical work). The rest of it you can probably handle yourself. It’s entirely possible the filing of the alt-1 will set off other code requirements for such things as sprinklers and who know what else that are extremely costly and inconvenient, as well as a property tax increase. Beware also and make sure the building really has the occupancy, number and configuration of units it says it does — don’t accidentally buy an SRO, particularly one that has been illegally altered without permits — because you will be in for years of headache and expense — and will not be able to legally rent the units.

alexwithak | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Less looking to know what exactly requires permits so much as to understand how to legally do my own work and when it’s allowed, with the above example of taking bedroom from one unit and adding it to another.

Sounds like I could hire a GC to pull permits and contract out some aspects of the work (like electrical and plumbing) while I take care of the areas I’m able to do (demo, drywall, door hanging, etc).

Thanks everyone for being willing to provide advice to a newbie on this.

chemosphere | 3 years and 11 months ago

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yeah but some of these replies are confusing … nobody can tell you if you actually need a permit without more in-depth knowledge of the work involved.

jimhillra | 3 years and 11 months ago

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If doing work yourself, please try to get a building permit. The fines for working without a permit were increased in 2017, and in a multi-family (3 and up) the fines are a minimum of $6,000, up to $15,000, plus a stop work order.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/local_laws/ll156of2017.pdf

dorkofwindsor | 3 years and 11 months ago

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can’t give any advice except what I would do. personally….. I’d be doing all that by myself w/o permits. I follow building and fire codes, electrical codes etc. And I’m not just some “I’ll figure it out” kind of guy, I can actually do it to code (usually way above, as that can be a benefit of a DIY). This isn’t groundbreaking stuff – if you have done things like this in the past, know the codes and given the state of the DOB and the horror stories of inspections…. what you mentioned just not worth opening up yourself to 1001 random violations even if you are sure your place is up to code. They created this situation – let things get wildly out of hand in a Wild West situation and now are 180 degrees in overbearing assholandia to the point of absurdity. I would get on with it, watch out for the stalking DOB car halfway down the block in the AM, and don’t answer the door.

krobertson

in Renovation 3 years and 11 months ago

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If you are changing the layout of the units, e.g adding / removing bedroom from one to another I”m almost positive you will need to file for a permit if you want it to be legal.. The architect will need to verify the new bedroom and existing apartments still meet egress / light / minimum size requirements after the change. Its possible DoB may require you to bring other parts of the apartment up to code as well and/or remove any other prior illegal renovations in your apartments performed by the prior owner(s) that you may or may not be aware of.

Yes, you’ll should hire a GC, as you’ll need the GC to pull the permits. You’ll probably have a really really hard time trying to pull the permits yourself for the work as you don’t have the required license, insurance, etc or even know the process. I recall a prior thread where someone tried to pull the permits themselves (they wanted to do the work themselves) and ran into a ton of road blocks with the DoB. Not sure how that turned out.

alexwithak | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Great info, thanks all. Good to know about adding closets and the demo debris.

Here’s a specific case with one building I’m considering. There are two 2br apartments on the ground floor and if I were to buy it I’d want to take a bedroom from one apartment to add it to the other. It would mean doing 3 things:
1. Seal the door to the other apartment
2. Add a door to my apartment through an existing wall
3. Move the electrical circuit for that room to the panel for my apartment

I can do 1 myself. 2 I’d consult the architect on placement and do the work. 3 I’d hire an electrician as is required. Is there anything here I’d *really* need a GC for? Resident2’s suggestion of hiring one the first time makes a lot of sense, but it’s not a large reno and the biggest part would be handled by a pro regardless. Seems like overkill to hire a GC in that case. But, as mentioned, doing it in NYC is a different ballgame.

(If we’re being honest, I could do the electrical myself , too. I’m actually more experienced doing that than door hanging. It’s so tempting to just do it all on my own, but…)

resident2 | 3 years and 11 months ago

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If you are moving walls, kitchens, bathrooms. Adding or decreasing the use (number of apartments) you should file plans with an architect, & hire a GC to deal with all the permits, scheduling the trades & getting everything signed off. And i would say until you have been through the process at least once, watching & learning with the Architect & GC you should not try to be the GC yourself.
If all you are doing is redoing kitchens (cabinets, appliances etc), leaving plumbing in the same place. redoing bathroom tile, a fixture etc, painting, plastering changing windows etc. You do do not need to file & you can do it yourself.
Doing any renovation work in NYC is much more complicated than in other places.
Keep your head down, dispose of Garbage, demolition by hiring a garbage removal company with a van. Do not pile it in your front yard & do not think you can get a dumpster on the street for a few days… it does not work like that!
Do not be a nuisance to your neighbors: dust, noise or garbage.

Augustiner | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Depends on the scope and if your neighbors care or not.

chemosphere | 3 years and 11 months ago

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in almost every scenario you can add a closet in your own home yourself with no permits and no plans unless it involves moving or removing a load bearing wall.