No Permits???

I understand that you need permits to do a lot of renovations in NYC.  I was told that the seller of the brownstone I’m considering buying just recently redid all of the plumbing and electric.  On nyc.gov, however, there are no records of any permits for the property.  Does anyone have any experience buying under similar circumstances or have any other opinions on this? Thanks!

schmalla

in Permits 13 years and 1 month ago

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daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Yes, Rich Perry.  he’s been recommended on here many times.  he did the inspection for my buyers and was very thorough yet reasonable in that he explained to them all the issues and whether or not they are worth asking for $$$ or not.  I had no electric, plumbing or deck code issues.  Decks are the biggest offenders!!!!

schmalla | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Thank you all for these incredibly helpful responses. I think what I’m hearing is that if the works that’s been done is up to code, then we shouldn’t have any issues, regardless of whether the seller got a permit or not, and we should hire an inspector to ensure that everything is up to code. Can anyone recommend a good yet reasonably priced inspector for this job on a bricktown house in park slope? Also, would the inspector also be able to look into things like whether we’d be able to install a spiral staircase to the roof (there’s currently a ladder) and whether we’d need a permit for this work? Or is this something a contractor would tell you?

mike-the-expeditor | 13 years and 1 month ago

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People tend to balk at paying for architects and expeditors but when you examine the issue objectively the City is trying to protect you and everyone else from dangerous work.  For plumbing and electrical work the process of getting permits is easy and inexpensive, if you’re a licensed professional.  For structural work and other major renovations I think you’re playing with fire.  If the plans aren’t to code you can have big problems if you ever try to legalize the work.  I once had a homeowner cry when an architect accompanied me on a job where the rooms were too small and didn’t have the proper light and ventilation to be called bedrooms. If a seller says that they had work done and you can’t find permits, hire an independent inspector/electrician/plumber and have them review the work.  You shouldn’t pay a premium for someone else’s illegal (and non-complying) work.  If the work is done to the applicable code, then good luck and make sure you get a good price 🙂

brucef | 13 years and 1 month ago

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What hasn’t been mentioned so far, but Jock aand others have been hinting at is the following. A city inspector or plan examiner hasn’t got the records in front of them, or they know the records are incomplete, or they are too lazy to check the records. getting tripped on these matters is a one in a hundred chance. Nevertheless, any inspector that sees a condition that he knows, would never have been approved, knows immediately that work was done without a permit, and vilations or denials of applications are sure to follow. So basically, if work performed was done to code, then all casual inspections will go smoothly and you’re good to go. Determining that the work performed was done to code requires someone with the appropriate knowledge, depending on whetehr it is plumbing vents, or gas lines, or electrical service etc. I’ve seen plenty of work performed by licensed plumbers that violates all sorts of code. Nevertheless, if it is done in a mostly correct manner, it will pass casual scrutiny. Seeing no vent on a plumbing run, no good. Seeing unapproved materials (example pex or pvc on potable water), or piping with no supports. As Dave suggests, it will be difficult to find a property thas has a permit filed for all work. That’s just not the critical question. The critical question is was the work performed according to code.

armchairwarrior | 13 years and 1 month ago

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no permit work is done all over brooklyn unless in the prime areas. other than that its a fact of life.

jockdeboeraia | 13 years and 1 month ago

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The problem with unpermitted work is it is most likely not done to code and when you go to file your project, you may have issues to deal with.

daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 1 month ago

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It’s hard to say.  A new roof doesn’t require a permit as long as it’s not a tear off with structural issues.  A lot of this depends upon where you are; that’s just a reality.  What I mean by that is that if you are in the heart of BH or PS you won’t get away with any unpermitted work but if you are in Clinton Hill or bed Stuy it’s the law of the land practically.   What else might you be thinking of doing?  A new kitchen or bathroom changes in plumbing locations for example, doesn’t require permits.

schmalla | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Thanks for the great answers so far!  When you say that any unpermitted work will be an issue in the future if we seek permits for additional work, does this mean just if the additional work is related to the unpermitted work?  In other words, if there are no permits for the electric and we want to get permits in the future for the roof, will this be an issue or will the city not look into unrelated permits?

daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 1 month ago

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I would bet that the majority of renovations in Brooklyn have been done without permits.  It won’t be an issue for your mortgage.  What you want to do is get an inspector who will tell you what actually meets code and what does not and whether or not the work is safe.  Use Rich Perry.  He’s recommended here a lot and just did the inspection for my buyers. Any unpermitted work will be an issue if you seek to get permits for additional work.  You are not likely to find a house in brooklyn with at least some unpermitted work.

andreas_ps | 13 years and 1 month ago

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You have to be careful about owners saying they did work previously. Most sellers will say this to sell for a higher price. Ask for proof, not just contracts but copies of permits and receipts. If they completely re-did the plumbing and electric then they need permits. Take someone along with you who knows electric and plumbing work. If you have a contractor then that’s great.