Need permits to move stove, add DW?

Hi, folks.  Hoping for guidance from others who’ve accomplished what I’m contemplating: I live in a Manhattan coop and hope to add a dishwasher to an old-ish eat-in kitchen that’s never had one.  I’m looking for the fine-for-now solution, not a big renovation, and unless we move around cabinets, sink placement, etc. there’s only one place to put a dishwasher: move the stove over and put the dishwasher where the stove was.

After lots of research & conflicting professional advice, I still uncertain whether DOB permits will be necessary, and if so whether I need a contractor or can just hire a licensed electrician and plumber to do the filings & work.  I’m trying to get a handle on what timing & budget to expect.

I will get everything done professionally, safely and legally, with any necessary permits.  But I’d really like to know what we’re up against before jumping into the process. We’re on a budget, and maybe this is going to cost so much we’ll need to wait for a while.

So our kitchen is @ 50+ years old.  I actually like the old fashioned vibe of it. What I envision is keeping all the old cabinetry where it is, moving the gas range @ 30″ to the left and 10″ back beside a concrete step-back (wide open space – it was an eat-in kitchen), then putting the dishwasher where the gas range now is, which is right beside the sink cabinet.   I hope to keep the old sink cabinet, replace the sink & faucet, and add a new countertop that extends over the sink cabinet and the dishwasher and its custom built cabinet. 

The range currently has a 32″ flexible connection going to the gas hookup directly behind it – it could connect to the same place from the new position with a 4 foot or less flexible connector.  Is that allowed under code?  Also, the dishwasher and its cabinet would now be directly in front of the where the gas connection enters our apartment (through that concrete wall). Is that allowed, or would the gas piping have to be moved (I assume that’s what “moving rough plumbing” means?).

Will this work count as replacing fixtures on existing roughings, or is it considered new fixtures and/or moving rough plumbing? Will permits be necessary? Will we actually need to pay an architect to get “plans” for this?  Must I get a contractor, or can I hire a qualified plumber and electrician to do the work as well as any required permits?  BTW, the stove plugs right into a dedicated electric line behind where it is now.  I was told we could run a new line for the stove after moving it, and put the DW on the line the stove now uses – permits required for this?

Sorry for the myriad questions, but I’ve read so many posts here, and gone through so many NYC codes that my head is swimming.  And I did ask contractors & plumbers before buying the apt., but as I said, got a lot of very different answers.  Trying to get some facts lined up &  figure out a ballpark budget before going through the actual contractor/plumber/electrician interview process. Thought popping a DW in would be minor stuff, but…hey, I’m a first-time NYC owner, what can I say… Thanks for any pointers!

Eyrie

in Permits 13 years and 9 months ago

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Eyrie | 13 years and 8 months ago

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Thanks, everyone.  Much appreciated.

masterbuilder | 13 years and 9 months ago

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Your coop should be able to provide you with renovation guidelines in print.  Since I bid on jobs in Manhattan and review guidelines from different coops, I actually find them to be quite similar.  It is highly likely they will want proof of insurance from the contractor but it seems unlikely they would require a filing or a permit.  Sometimes the coops have architects they retain to review projects as well.

jockdeboeraia | 13 years and 9 months ago

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The reality is you will have to do whatever the Board tells you.  Generally once you move and or add fixtures, they will tell you to get a permit.  You may find that they will not even allow you to extend the gas line.  If the gas meter is not in your apt or near, the gas test will be for the entire line, which is not easy.  Ask your building manager, tell them what you want to do and see what they say.

callalily | 13 years and 9 months ago

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Oh, wait, you’re in Manhattan. Don’t call Nu-Lite, they are only for Brooklyn and Queens. Too far away.

callalily | 13 years and 9 months ago

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If the dishwasher uses the water supply, waste pipe, and vent of the sink, you do not need a permit or an architect. Call a licensed plumber experienced with black pipe (gas pipe, heating) to check out your setup and do the installation of both items. The plumber will know what is required by code for the stove and the dishwasher (not to mention permits). The plumber will also know if what you are proposing is even possible. If any moving of pipes is required, you will need a permit as well as permission from the coop. If the plumber says what you want to do is feasible, hire the plumber for the installation. It will not cost more than an unlicensed guy because the plumber is faster, and s/he will do it right. Trust me, I’ve done this with a couple of washing machines in the kitchens (not dishwashers). It’s very similar. If you don’t have a plumber near you, I recommend Nu-Lite of Maspeth.

daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 9 months ago

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The gate keeper is your coop.  Technically, moving plumbing and electrical always requires a permit.  that said, if the coop, and more importantly the superintendant (assuming it’s big enough to have one) is such that the former looks the other way and the latter facilitates the installation with a greased palm (as it was in my condo) then just go ahead and do it.

But, like i said, you need to see what the coop requires and the best way to attempt that is initially through the super

BHS | 13 years and 9 months ago

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My advice would be to call a few of the architects who post on the forum and get their advice regarding whether you need to file and why. You do need to find out whether you need co-op approval too. With the stove, it’s important that you can quickly turn off the gas to the stove, so it might be a problem to have the DW blocking the shutoff for the gas if I understood you correctly. I installed a DW in a similar configuration in an old freestanding-style kitchen and opted to move the gas line and have new shut-off valves put in under the sink so that I could quickly turn off the gas if need be, such as if the pilots went out and I couldn’t figure out what to do right away.