Need advice from other landlords re: tenant turnover

Hi, fellow landlords: I own a 3 family house and live abroad, so I rely on tenants to act as supers. I have a consistent problem with tenants moving out and leaving the apartment in sub-standard condition. Their leases obligate them to leave it in move-in clean condition and to repaint, if they painted, back to white, in a professional manner. The problem is that this never happens, and then I am usually faced with the prospect of new tenants spending absurd amounts of money to fix it up themselves and then presenting me with the bill, at which point I have no choice but to pay it if I want to keep the peace. How do you handle this? Part of me is inclined to, when tenants vacate, just suck it up and pay someone to clean it professionally and repaint it. The other part of me feels strongly that tenants should leave it in decent condition when they move out, and decent means that someone else can move in without having to clean from top to bottom. If the former, does anyone know someone reliable who will repaint and clean a 1.5 bedroom, small floor through for a reasonable sum? Any advice would be appreciated. I want to treat my tenants fairly but I don’t want to lose my shirt – I already typically make some improvements to the apartments when people move out, like have the bathrooms regrouted or floors refinished.

nwilcke

in Landlord 11 years and 8 months ago

9

Please log in, in order to post replies!

9 replies

Newest Oldest

resident2 | 11 years and 6 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4929 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4917 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "181002"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "resident2"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BYKCrEpDU34.3RJghRPk8/Xp1XpCve/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "resident2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "Jamanda1255@Yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:07:33"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "resident2"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(181002)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Hello; I am surprised that you have not run into this issue before now, but as the market and rents are getting higher, even if you give them a break on rent, tenants expectations are much higher and a tenants cooperation and good faith is much lower. That said; I use Patrick DeVerteuil to turn my rentals around between tenants as well as being on call for emergencies for tenants repairs etc. Many landlords in Fort Greene / Clinton Hill use him his number 718-309-3934 email: ThePatrickD@aol.com It is better to charge a bit more in rent and know that you need to pay someone to paint clean and repair between tenants.

mruby36 | 11 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4928 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4927 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176799"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "mruby36"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B3wBk7M3JG4.sFMK.ZlyJPf35Hdroy/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "mruby36"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(15) "matt@nyc-hs.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(21) "http://www.nyc-hs.com"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:15:51"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(6) "Matt R"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176799)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

If I can, and I will, step outa the way of the advice snafoo, your situation is tough if not impossible as you are finding out. This may sound like leaving the frying pan for the fire but, perhaps a contractor can help? Ok, when you are done laughing, I do small to mid size projects. A general scope of work can be worked out that an apartment would be expected to need to be turned over between tenants. When someone moves out, a quick inspection and a few pictures by email can verify more or less what was previously agreed upon. Paypal works great for payment and off you go. There are also a couple of good solutions for exchange of keys etc so that logistic is sorted out easily as well. If you think that this approach has merit, please give me a call to discuss further. My details are on my website. Best of luck and I hope this helps! Matt R www.nyc-hs.com

plaidtomato | 11 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5098 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5096 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "180810"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "plaidtomato"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BdUDE/97xcjvGOpk6iRS7HC81wW7k40"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "plaidtomato"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "Plaidtomato@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:43:16"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "plaidtomato"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(180810)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

**You posted and requested feedback from landlords –you requested Free Advice. You left out pertinent information which in a defensive afterthought included in a snarky reply. Thank you, as we all now know you are combative, negative and willing to single out a respondent who gave you the Best Free Advise Ever – Yes, you are Welcome. Why no response to the comment; ‘I think you’re dreaming’ and ‘You are being unrealistic thinking that you…’. Again Ms. Landlord you still need to ‘think deeply about’ your inability to keep tenants which is a very profound and meaningful piece of Free Advice and to further think deeply about your crude reply and inability to be gracious. Again, you are Welcome. From a fabulous Ms. Landlord without a high tenant turnover. It is a beautiful day, enjoy!**

Arkady | 11 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5095 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5121 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "14677"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(6) "Arkady"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BSLpIhH1FLNbV2Qdpb/F67tu7brrgw1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(6) "Arkady"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(20) "rkdillon@verizon.net"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(21) "/forums/users/arkady/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2008-08-04 21:50:38"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "HL9P1Plx6tnm1l8GiJvd"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(6) "Arkady"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(14677)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

If the apartment isn’t left clean & painting guidelines haven’t been met, just don’t refund the security deposit. Here’s a reasonably-priced service I’ve used for cleaning and painting: pedroquichiz@hotmail.com

nwilcke | 11 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5096 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4928 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "179639"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "nwilcke"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BBpqEMTLE.4zmgsjnzEy.s48acyCYA1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "nwilcke"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "nwilcke@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(22) "/forums/users/nwilcke/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:26:56"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(7) "nwilcke"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(179639)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

thanks to all of you except plaid tomato for your advice. i think you’re all right – limit the amount and colors tenants can paint, but just pay for a professional clean and re-paint between tenants. hey, plaid tomato: thanks for nothing. i lived in my building for five years. i’m moving back in in two years. i give my tenants a sizable monthly discount off the rent to act as supers, and i never ask them to do anything but deposit rent checks, keep the halls clean, and coordinate with repairmen for entry to the building. i’d be happy to live in my building, and the reason my tenants leave has never had anything to do with the condition of my building, as i have invested huge amounts of money in the last seven years to repair and improve building fundamentals and installing new cabinetry and washer dryers for my tenants. so i don’t really need any of your ‘thoughts to think deeply about’, as profound as that meaningless piece of advice was.

plaidtomato | 11 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5098 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5122 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "180810"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "plaidtomato"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BdUDE/97xcjvGOpk6iRS7HC81wW7k40"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "plaidtomato"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "Plaidtomato@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:43:16"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "plaidtomato"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(180810)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

What I read in your post: **I rely on tenants to act as supers me feels strongly new tenants spending ..money to fix it themselves presenting me with the bill I …live abroad pay someone to clean it professionally and repaint it someone reliable who will repaint …for a reasonable sum** Question: Would you want to live in your building? Renters LEAVE because the living environment is unsatisfactory. Act professional and hire a professional to manage your building and repair your building and then your will see rental turnover reduced. Do you pay your tenants ‘to act as supers”? Why should a tenant have to fix anything themselves? Regards to ‘presenting me with the bill’ is a thought for you to think deeply about. Reevaluate your role as a building owner and your expectations of income for a person who lives abroad. Suggestion, live in your building for a year to realize that your feelings and expectations may need adjusting.

anotherposter | 11 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4928 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5095 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "53767"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "anotherposter"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bq7XUGtTb.5jsWjD4iMAO7rQGswiJX0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "anotherposter"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "mail.anon.user@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(28) "/forums/users/anotherposter/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:38:06"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "anotherposter"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(53767)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

We’ve had landlords say “no painting” and the consequence (I’m pretty sure outlined in the lease) was that if we did paint and did not paint it back, was $X out of our deposit. We never painted. We were moving into a very ugly place that we knew was going to be repainted at one point and asked the LL if we could choose colors instead of white (the floors were cheap white tiles, wood trim was white, drop ceiling in white). The LL said if we bought the paint (and it wasn’t dark colors like red and no pinks), his guys would do it. We were thrilled, chose mild colors that ended up making the place look 10x better (even the LL was surprised what color did to it) and he just left it that way for the next tenants. Also as tenants, we were happy for any color on the walls of a rental. The white was always so sterile. Maybe you should just rent it with whatever color they painted.

eman134 | 11 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5122 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5096 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "177006"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "eman134"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BaRrlDjFBcYAeDJ9.lwOTJ9pQC9nsT."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "eman134"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "errol832000@hotmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(29) "http:///forums/users/eman134/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:25:55"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(7) "eman134"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(177006)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

All a tenant is generally required to do is leave the apartment “broom clean”…not ready for a new tenant. It is your responsibility as a landlord to make any needed repairs or repainting…not your tenant. You are being unrealistic thinking that you do not need to hire someone to clean and touch up the place upon tenant turnover

Rick | 11 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5098 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5123 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1470"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(4) "Rick"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BAu.JvH2s1Xx4WSWCj1RPGTP7/OK53/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(4) "rick"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "r.ladd.bklyn@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(46) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/rick/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:11:46"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(4) "Rick"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1470)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I think you’re dreaming. Speaking from experience, it’s not realistic to expect tenants to paint and clean for the new tenant coming in, when they move out. I understand that you have it stated in the lease but tenants are busy & proactive with moving and cleaning their NEW apartment, not their old one. You live abroad and can not keep an eye on the condition of your apartments and your tenants know that. I have no idea how often your apartments turn over. My apartments on average turn over every 3-5 years and I expect to make cosmetic repairs at that time. I can see being thrifty, compensating a tenant for small jobs related to your building like taking the trash out, snow removal, keeping the halls clean and keeping you informed with what is going on. Anything more than that you should hire a management service and expect to hire someone to paint and clean when an apartment becomes empty.