What you did or wish you did before purchasing a brownstone?
Totally appreciate all the feedback! This forum is great. If people have any recommendations on an inspector, please let me know and post there info. While I recognize there are risks of building in repair costs into the bid, I prefer to go eyes wide open. As I mentioned, I know some buildings need a bit (or a lot) of TLC, but its all about understanding what’s the ask. Call it “risk management” or what you will. Thanks you again everyone for your help. I really do appreciate it.
lockey2k
in Inspection 12 years and 11 months ago
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lockey2k | 12 years and 11 months ago
Thanks in advance for all your help. Long time reader, first time poster. I am in the process of considering to purchase a brownstone/building either in Brooklyn or Harlem. Before making an offer on a place, I was wondering what type of diligence people did on their brownstones. In particular, I was considering hiring a building inspector to inspect the building pre-offer to determine the state of the boiler, plumbing, and general construction to understand what long term costs to expect during the next 5-10 years. Thoughts? On the inspector point, I welcome and recommendations of individuals that can give solid advice. Thanks again.
callalily | 12 years and 11 months ago
We drove by our place at all hours of day and night, and talked to the neighbors. Always inspect the building before purchase. Typically this occurs after an offer is accepted but before you go into contract. It’s advisable to hire someone who is both a certified inspector and an engineer, so you don’t have to hire an engineer in addition if the inspector turns up a structural issue. If there are issues, it’s advisable to have the cost subtracted from the purchase price and do the work yourself. It’s a good idea to have at least $10,000 on hand in case of emergency repairs. As for the work itself, we tried to line up a contractor in advance but were unable. So call more of them than we did, and describe the task at hand as LARGE rather than small so they call you back. It’s imperative to find a contractor who knows what they are doing, is a finish carpenter, and is insured. If the place is a fixer upper, call in the exterminator and get rid of all creatures and do all the electrical and plumbing, then skim coating, then painting and floors in that order. Do not move in first and then skim coat on the mistaken theory you can DIY and save money, as we did. 🙂
brucef | 12 years and 11 months ago
I would shop with the following in mind. A house that is a good fit for you, meaning the style, shape, proportions, location is far more important than whether you are timing your purchase wisely, or whteher you are getting a good deal. The vanity involved in forging what you want from what you purchase is a costly luxury, from which one rarely profit. The structural re-arrangements are the most costly of renovations, so finding a house that doesn’t need that particular work is vital. Please notice that I deliberately did not say fit and finish, apparent condition, move-in condition. Those can and will have to be eventually fixed. Renting an inspector’s knowledge is a crap shoot. Some are good, some not so much. But no inspector can tell you what is more important. Can you live with and embrace what you are shopping for. Ultimately an architect theoretically would be the trade closest to what you need, but in NYC their focus has to be more regulautory. Ultimately, you are unready to move forward while you are hoping that others can make your decisions. A few weeks after they have cashed your check, it is inevitable that rented expertise peters out. Until you can accept that this falls on you only, you will end up the world’s punching bag. What man/woman should I marry? You are essentially asking should I have a shrink investigate the choice my rabbi/mother/friend made for me?
busytradehoo | 12 years and 11 months ago
lockey2k | 12 years and 11 months ago
Original poster here. I appreciate the tips. At the end of the day, I’m particularly happy with a few buildings. My primary concern is an unexpected cost popping up 6 months later. I’m not adverse to big ticket costs coming down the pipe, just would like to see it coming rather than waking up one day to find a giant hole in my roof or the boiler breaking down. Thanks again.
deano | 12 years and 11 months ago
If you’re planning on a new neighborhood, location is your first hurdle. Time & money can fix everything about your house, but you can’t change your surroundings. “Brooklyn or Harlem” is a pretty wide net, and you will want to establish your priorities first;- how important it is for you to move into an established neighbourhood, a tight community, or a quiet block, a new frontier, etc etc. As mopar says, there is no substitute for spending time in a neighbourhood (or on a block when you have a place in your sights) and learning how it feels & sounds at all different times of day/week. When you put in a serious offer, you want to already know what you’re signing up for.
callalily | 12 years and 11 months ago
That’s quite a philosophical answer BruceF gives. Definitely use an independent, certified, and licensed house inspector AND engineer. The average homeowner would be foolish to enter into a contract without this step. Don’t use one recommended by the real estate agent. Bring your own.
brucef | 12 years and 11 months ago
Guess I got off on a tangent. Obviously a prospective purchaser should research an inspector/engineer with specific old house experience. Some clown from Staten Island with 4 different certifications may be fine for a suburban house, but brownstones are a completely different animal. To best get a grip on 1-5 year repair expenses as opposed to planned renovations, think of the information that would be available on Carfax. This may be difficult for shoppers to ascertain, but understanding who the owners were, and what their motivations were at the time is necessary to understand how an old house got that way. Worst case would be purchasing from a flipper, whose every motivation would be short term profit. Sometimes the best scenario is long term ownership by a family that lacked the resources to maintain. What scares me the most in these situations is a pot that has had many chefs, with possibly different goals. Sometimes i will work on a house that was owned in the past by someone who always used 20 nails where 4 would have been proper. I can live with that, and I will always expect to find too many fasteners. What you should be seeking if you had your druthers, would be an unfixed house. Oftentimes a trade will come to a house for a specific reason, and they look neither left nor right, and ignore the ramifications of their actions. Perfect example of this was previous living quarters re-arrangements, going from rooming house to apartments etc. This is when plumbers will chop beams to install waste lines. To the chopper, there was no other way to install the toilet where the owner wanted it, so chop, chop, chop. The experienced old house inspector is aware of this process, and can make a good guess what hides behind the walls or floors, based on the sag etc. Good luck.
housepoor | 12 years and 11 months ago
Remember this is a process. The first house you like you won’t buy. Probably not the second one either. When you are successful, you’ll have buyers remorse. It happens. Many people try to mastermind the repair costs, then get outbid. This is a risk in getting the inspection done before bidding — you know too much (or think you do). if your contract says it is subject to an acceptable inspection (you might blame the bank), then you can have leverage if the report comes back with issues. But if you remove yourself from the game before the first pitch is thrown, you get nothing. This forum is excellent for developing a realistic feel for what things cost and how much is involved. And remember, its the finishes that take the time and cost the money. Just when you thought you were close to done, along comes the painter… Also, try to have a financial safety net. Nothing is worse than not being able to finish a project for lack of cash. Finally, if you focus on Harlem, pay close attention to the regulatory details. There are tons of SROs — even buildings that have been converted to 1 or 2 family houses. Buying into an illegal conversion is something a first time buyer should not do unless they have tons of money, patience, and contractors/expediters/architects that can demonstrate they have done this before. Good luck….