Found: company that installs hydronic electric radiant plus cooling

I posted here a while back about my interest in a heat pump + radiator system, which is common in Europe but uncommon here. I was told by various contractors and plumbers that they don’t exist, that they are not efficient, that they don’t work in cold climates, that they won’t work in a whole house–all of which puzzled me since they are routinely installed in big old houses in cold regions like Scandinavia and the UK.

Anyway… I finally found a new company right here in Brooklyn run by a guy who is very knowledgeable and very passionate about these European-style “air to water” systems. It’s called BK Climate Solutions, and I just put down a deposit.

It uses a heat pump like for mini-splits but connects to water-filled pipes for radiators or radiant floors. It also heats your water and pumps out cold air for cooling in summer, except instead of those fat units on the wall, the air comes from very slim slits on the wall or grates on the floor. (Obviously easier as part of a major reno when walls are open.)

Yes, it’s way more expensive than a mini-split system, but there are big rebates available through Con Ed and through NYSERDA’s EmPower + program (if you qualify as moderate income, which for Kings County is defined as less than $101,800). And it apparently costs less to run than a mini-split because it’s even more efficient.

Article about the owner’s own renovation and heat system is here: https://www.achrnews.com/articles/153824-project-files-episode-65-zero-emission-hydronic-heat-at-brooklyn-brownstone

I can’t say yet what it’s like to live with, but thought I’d pass this along in case anyone is interested.

annissa12

in Heating and Cooling 4 months ago

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annissa12 | 3 months ago

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@GreenwoodGoblin You are more than welcome to come see the new electric radiant heat/cooling system when it’s finished (April?). I think what I’m doing is lots easier when everything’s being torn up but I think there are ways to do it without so much mess (ie slim wall-hung radiators rather than the fan-coil radiators hidden in floor vents). The brilliant Itai and Chester of BK Climate Solutions can talk you though it when you’re ready. Their website is under construction now but there’s a phone number on it. And my work # is 631-742-8045 if you want a tour. (The house is in the south Slope,)

jrs84o | 4 months ago

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@GreenwoodGoblin Just my two cents… I know I’ve stressed this to a fault, but IMHO it’s absolutely the most important thing to understand before you choose a HVAC system:

Have someone come out and determine the heat envelope of your property.

If a brownstone does not have the proper insulation, there is no way to fix it inexpensively (and most likely without replacing windows) and you will end up burning double the spac’ed BTUs to feel comfortable.

We found this out the hard way.. we installed 40k BTU on each floor— but really need 100k BTU because of heat loss.

Aircon in summer is no problem as the air handlers remove the humidity easily cooling the rooms… we never operate the heat pumps in “cooling mode.”

My heat pumps run 10-12 hours a day on my Parlor level from Dec-Mar because we have very bad insulation AND they NEVER reach the set point… so all the added inverter technology simply goes to waste and the units burn about $10/day, 4 kwatts/hr electric.

That’s why I’m going with a 2stage Forced Air system which will simply blow gobs of hot air without any sophi sticated controls.

Upstairs, we only run the heat pumps 3-4 hours a day before we retire, as we prefer it a bit cooler while we sleep and simply turn the whole system off, which is not optimal as everything needs to heat back up in the room every evening.

In any case, I have not heard of anyone else using a two type Mechanical heating system here in Brooklyn, although I know it’s becoming a bit more common to put a heat pump on to a ducted gas or oil system for an added boost in the dead of winter or conversely, as you suggest, heat in the shoulder seasons.

workisfun | 4 months ago

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We have 7 Myson Decor flat panel radiators (hydronic), that I got from Utica Plumbing and Heating. Each one has its own loop to the HE combi boiler. We run them at 130*. Very happy with them. Various sizes and configurations.

Guest User | 4 months ago

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850… you generally have enough room to use your old chimney as a chase for your vent and fresh air for a HE boiler, especially if you are using polypro as your venting material

jrs84o | 4 months ago

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I have NOT chosen my contractor yet. The guys who did my original install- 10 years ago – was Chris Stewart, who has unfortunately passed away.

I’m only at the planning stage for my new configuration now, and was working with an engineer who was researching my chimney flue situation. He is Ken Chen, at Kon Ho Lee Engineering in Bay Ridge 917-913-3688. They are not strictly HVAC people.. so may not be exactly who you need.

eg66 | 4 months ago

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850 mph do you mind sharing who is doing your install? We are leaning more and more toward retaining steam radiators with a new boiler (or in a dream scenario hydronic radiators) + non hyperheat handlers for shoulder season, a/c, and some small, sunny rooms that don’t need a full radiator. Appreciate your intel it’s been helpful.

jrs84o | 4 months ago

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Agreed…. Each home has its own unique “Heat Profile.”

But I would not get too hung up on the “heating profile” reports which take your address and other variables into a software package to determine the “best”system for your property…

I had one done and it was NOT as helpful as talking to a couple of contractors who had better “real world” answers… and can really look at the insulation envelope of your property.

I’ve had steam, forced air, hydro, electrostatic/resistance as well as electric-fed infra-red and ceramic, plus even wood fueled heating in properties I’ve owned or rented.

They each have their own capabilities and purposes.

Here in Brooklyn, after 10 years of exclusively using Mitsu Hyper Heat heat pumps on two floors (no basement heating)….. I’m switching to a 2 stage, 100k btu gas fired, 90%+ efficient condensing forced air furnace for Basement and Parlor levels.

I may have to go with a non-condensing 80% unit, as running new double wall venting may not be possible in my place… I still have NOT got a good answer from my engineer friend about running d ouble wall vents up existing chimney.

Switching mainly because I want to heat the basement, and a single duct run with appropriate dampers can feed both Basement and Parlor levels of my house.

And I’m sticking to the heat pumps for the top floor— although I’m gonna break my one large 36k btu unit into two smaller 24k units feeding two air handlers each…

justinromeu26 | 4 months ago

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And we have to be careful of marketing buzzwords that mask the true nature of things.

justinromeu26 | 4 months ago

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850mph. This is why more research is needed. We have to compare apples to apples and that is very hard to do with the uk and ireland because their climates are milder than ours here in the northeast and the auxiliary heat will kick in more here.