Converting single pipe radiators to a central control thermostat/zoned system
Just starting a gut renovation of a condo loft. The space has old single pipe radiators that make the apt way too hot in the winter. Since this is a condo with 40 apts, we can’t do anything to change the boiler, but I wonder if there is anything we can do to make the radiators in the apt function with a centralized thermostat. Since it is there are several rooms over two floors, it would be even better if we could do this using a zoned system. Perhaps there are some electronic valves that could work with a product like nest. Also, is it possible to convert the heat in the bathrooms to from a one pipe radiator to radiant floor heat?
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in Heating and Cooling 9 years and 4 months ago
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7 replies
thetinkerswagon | 9 years and 4 months ago
potential need her: danfoss type system which can work wireless. maybe the demand is not there as many people would echo what eman says about danfoss. they are kind of used as a last resort when there are not other choices (ie two pipe). I am almost tempted to write them and ask if they have considered making thermostatically controlled wireless danfoss valves. afterall, the best way to heat a space is to heat it uniformly as if you don’t there are always drafts shifting around it. we used them in two building and though they seem kind of gimicky, they are not priced that way and overall they did what they were supposed to do; they have local thermostats and those thermostats do work. you are still of course depending on the boiler coming on (but since you said the area being too hot was the problem, I suppose the boiler is on enough to heat the other areas). steve
MASTERELECTRICIAN | 9 years and 4 months ago
Can’t advise you as to piping questions, but can suggest electric radiant floor heat. We have done several successful installations and our customers say they are comfortable. They even have a thermostat is that works through your wifi so you can change the the settings remotely.
steam_man | 9 years and 4 months ago
Nest is the Donald Trump of thermostats. It’s all advertising and nothing worthwhile inside. As for vari-valves and steam holding tanks..Ummm yeah right.. One pipe steam presents challenges that are not insurmountable but do take someone with smarts and patience enough to deal with a single unit. I’d go ahead and read that article that was linked. I know each of the people mentioned in it and I can say they are all pretty sharp guys. The one called Cataneo is pretty good. I’d give him a shot. Get the rads sized properly, get them vented correctly with TRVs and then you will have a decent system. Perhaps the building’s control system needs an upgrade too. I’m sure Cataneo will look into that. On the other hand if you have the ability to mount a condenser on a roof or yard then I can give you heat and AC. Feel free to give us a call if you’d like to have a phone conversation about that. My business can be found in the Brownstoner Local Pros Section under Molten Mechanical & Metal Works. Feel free to ask for Steve.
Master Plvmber | 9 years and 4 months ago
Convert one pipe steam to radiant floor heating. That’s ambitious. Maybe someone in this article can help you.http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/realestate/radiators-steam-heat-temperature-control.html?_r=0
ellenlourie | 9 years and 4 months ago
If you have space, you can install steam heated holding tank and install how water system. but it is costly proposition. Other than that separate gas fired boiler, even more money, and even possibility of the job is in question. With what you have, only building wide steam system improvements might help.
eman134 | 9 years and 4 months ago
The closest you can come to what you want is to is 1) swap out all of your vents on the radiators to danfoss varivents of which I am not a huge fan http://s3.supplyhouse.com/manuals/1295385084103/44329_PROD_FILE.pdf notice that these will not work in conjunction with a thermostat, the boiler must be controlled by a heatimer or tekmar or similar control (which it probably is) 2)Get a heating professional (like myself…contact info is in my profile) to resize all of your vents to alleviate the overheating situation Forget the steam to radiant…not compatibile…consider electric underfloor heat if you are really set on radiant… http://www.nuheat.com/floor-heating/standard-mats/#overview
thetinkerswagon | 9 years and 4 months ago
first, I am not an expert on this but have seen my share of heating systems in a variety of buildings. Usually that is done with hot water and I don’t believe ever with single pipe steam. I have seen steam coils installed in air handlers with a thermostatic valve and a control unit for the fan and they will turn on and off as need be and this can be rigged to a central thermostat (as in an HVAC system which we more often see in commercial buildings but certainly in some modern residential). Locally (at the point of heat), I have seen Danfoss thermostatic on each radiator and they are a really good choice if someone does not wish to start running pipe everywhere and installing air handlers. there is one other thing for the steam, but I have only seen it on a two pipe; a heat timer which controls the steam flow out of the boiler and to the entire system, but the time I saw that we still needed the danfoss valves. I would read about the danfoss. maybe there is somebody or maybe with all of this wireless technology danfoss has a way to control these centrally now. if they have not done it yet, they should be. (it has been years since I have worked in a building with this stuff). Steve