Will DOB let a neighbor put a construction fence on my property?
A neighbor is putting up a full-width extension, or trying to. I notice that on the DOB Now website, they have applied for a fence thusly:
“Fence Height: 8
Location of the Fence: Outside of property line but within three feet of property line”
We are abutting brownstones. Can they do this? Without my permission? There’s a typical cedar fence along the property lines.
homely
in General Discussion 5 years and 9 months ago
16
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16 replies
slopefarm | 5 years and 9 months ago
there are lots of this one can talk with a neighbor and resolve. An access agreement should not be one of them because the stakes are too high. If a worker falls off your roof, the liability rules should be spelled out in writing. As the old saying goes, an oral agreement is worth the paper it’s printed on.
hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago
Yep, lawyers need brownstones too, and how would they get them if we could just “talk” to each other about such matters?
Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago
@camp6ell – Even friendly neighbors should have an access agreement that is negotiated by a lawyer in a circumstance like the above. Too many potential issues with insurance, indemnification, who is responsible for what when things go wrong. Good access agreements make good neighbors, because the documents provide a thorough game plan that both sides have in writing.
camp6ell | 5 years and 9 months ago
talk to your neighbor! Make friends! You both chose to live in that neighborhood, yet neither of you are making any effort to be neighborly.
This answers applicable to about 90% of the questions on Brownstoner.
Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago
Your neighbor will need an access agreement to put up this fence on your lot. These are pretty common (I’ve negotiated two in the last year) and for this kind of installation you can expect to receive somewhere around $500 to $1,500 per month as compensation for as long as the fence is up. You should hire a NYC construction lawyer (there is a group of lawyers who effectively specialize in this) and have them negotiate an agreement with your neighbor’s lawyer. This is a job for a lawyer – often developers will browbeat neighbors into signing flimsy documents. Just thank them and ask for their lawyer’s contact info. Any access agreement should have your legal fees paid for, engineering/consulting fees paid for, and reasonable compensation as outlined above.
As someone above mentioned, it’s almost always better to come to an agreement than to go through the courts. The court process, which is called an Article 881 proceeding, is expedited, there’s a ton of case law about reasonable compensation, and you’ll inevitably get somewhere in the dollar range above. Many homeowners hold out on these agreements because they think they’ll get a windfall in court but it never works out that way.
I hesitate to give recommendations but a couple law firms that have robust practice fields here are Quinn McCabe, Rosenberg and Estis, and DL Partners, among others. Since the neighbor will pay your legal bills, you should get a good lawyer. The devil is in the details – insurance, penalties for late work, monitoring, etc. Good luck.
Putnamdenizen | 5 years and 9 months ago
This is true.
hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago
Architects might not give you all the options for a number of reasons.
Putnamdenizen | 5 years and 9 months ago
Hmm, don’t know. My understanding (from my then architects) was it was forbidden generally. So in my case we were thinking of putting a third story on a long-existing two story extension that was 15 feet wide (house was 20). DOB wouldn’t let us aggravate the existing and grandfathered non-conforming side court. Interestingly they might have allowed us to cantilever a full width extension over both the existing building and the side court. Or so my architects suggested. It was sometime around this point that I realized all I really needed was a better organized master bedroom closet, not a new room.
hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago
Is that just for use as an court for legal windows for bedrooms, or it’s not allowed at all?
Putnamdenizen | 5 years and 9 months ago
I cannot. My memory is that the minimum size of side court (between side wall of house and property line) is 8 feet. This is not to neighbor’s building, but to common property line. So it is of no moment (I was told) whether or not the neighboring property is built up to property line or not (can’t use open footage in neighbor’s property to make legal that which would otherwise be non-conforming.). This goes back to codes seeking to end tenements with minimal light wells in lieu of full access to air/light.
hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago
This is interesting, can you cite the rule on side courts?
homely | 5 years and 9 months ago
That’s interesting because their extension will cause a “side court” on my property. As they will be blocking my light, I have already filed a complaint w/landmarks — to no avail. LPC now does not now have issues with full-width extensions. Do you know the width of said side court in code?
Putnamdenizen | 5 years and 9 months ago
Homely – the code forbids narrow “side courts”, so oddly enough an extension often has to be full width. That said, has the OP spoken to the neighbor? My neighbor built an extension without any construction fence in my grandfathered side court…
slopefarm | 5 years and 9 months ago
This is not my area, but as I understand it, you can refuse, but not unreasonably. The normal resolution is an access agreement in which you agree to allow access in exchange for important protections (insurance, indemnification, etc.), and sometimes a bit of compensation. IMHO the protection is more important than the compensation. You are better off working out an agreement than picking a fight by denying access. There are lawyers who do these kinds of agreements routinely (I don’t have a rec), so it is not a costly proposition. .
homely | 5 years and 9 months ago
It would be necessary if the extension is to be full width, as they want, but do they need to go full width? No.
hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago
Generally, you can refuse them access, but if it’s necessary for the construction, they can get a license from a court to access your property. Usually, some compensation is paid by the party needing access, and there are insurance and other issues to consider. In my opinion, you should do you homework and then have a conversation with your neighbor. I’d seriously consider consulting an attorney, and it may be possible to get them to pay for the legal expenses.