weatherproofing old double hung windows

Looking for alternatives to make our small old windows less drafty. I have been using the clear plastic seal with hair dryer method, sealing the window efficiently but also not allowing any ventilation… And it does not look very attractive obviously. Either I need to replace the windows (very costly, since they are lotline windows and in order to be compliant to code they cost over 3K each, for tiny windows… , or have storm windows installed (also expensive, and does not look nice at all, with difficulty cleaning windows on outside etc). Any suggestions of what I could do with the existing windows, making them less drafty? The original windows have charm, I would like to keep them. Many thanks!

ajeb

in General Discussion 5 years and 11 months ago

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Guest User | 5 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "200749"

Stoopsitter, I bought several Indows. https://indowwindows.com. They are a bit unwieldy but if you are ok with not opening some windows, they are great. You don’t even notice that they are there. If I remember correctly a rough townhouse window ran about $400 a piece. The inserts really cut down on cold drafts and noise. They saved me when my heat went out and my plumber was a no show during that cold spell in 2017.

Amym718 | 5 years and 10 months ago

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stoopsitter mentioned it! I was being lazy. Credit where credit is due.

Amym718 | 5 years and 10 months ago

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Here’s an article about those interior “storm windows” someone mentioned above. I haven’t priced them, but this conversation is reminding me to do it. https://www.oldhouseonline.com/repairs-and-how-to/interior-storm-windows

cate | 5 years and 11 months ago

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Window repair is one of those things it is possible to do yourself slowly over time using the book Working Windows for guidance. At least that is true of the interior parts, and for fixing windows on the ground floor. As for refreshing the exterior glazing on upper story windows, an exterior painter should be able to handle this. Whether they will come out for such a “small” job I don’t know. I recently restored the one original exterior window we have, in our shed. A local glazier fixed one broken pane and refreshed some of the existing glazing putty. Then I primed and painted it. It’s a casement window that opens in and alas we were not able to get it fully weatherstripped so we had to caulk/seal it closed to prevent water leaks. It’s quite challenging to refresh old glazing compound without breaking the glass. This little DIY blog post is quite informative and realistic about how to do it. https://betweennapsontheporch.net/how-to-repair-chipped-or-missing-window-glazing/

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

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i no longer need this Working Windows book. if anyone wishes it, email me via my website www.thetinkerswagon.com. i will mail or deliver it to the first person to respond.

no phone calls, pls.

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

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@maggie: It would be nice if some brooklyn-based talent saw that list and felt inspired enough to move in that direction. Someone who will respond to the smaller jobs those firms may not want to bother with (or would in turn sub out).

Guest User | 5 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "3"
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here’s a list of companies provided by the Landmarks Conservancy who will do window repairs. It won’t necessarily be cheap, depending on the need, but maybe try calling a few of these folks?
http://www.nylandmarks.org/programs_services/technical_assistance/contractors/window_repair_and_restoration/

Guest User | 5 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "195579"

here’s a list of companies provided by the Landmarks Conservancy who will do window repairs. It won’t necessarily be cheap, depending on the need, but maybe try calling a few of these folks?
http://www.nylandmarks.org/programs_services/technical_assistance/contractors/window_repair_and_restoration/

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 5 years and 11 months ago

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I really hope there are people now who will fix old windows. Long ago (prior to our neighborhoods landmarking) we wasted to preserve our original windows but were unable to even get anyone to look at them. The aluminum replacements we ended up with don’t look TOO bad and have held up well for well over two score years, but still….
Of course we would have installed aluminum storms over the originals )which we’re advocated in “brownstoner “ circles back then, and that would have looked worse.

cate | 5 years and 11 months ago

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The above posters beat me to it. Original windows are a beautiful thing and kudos to you for keeping them. The maintenance Maggie describes plus possibly interior storm windows (easily removed) should be much more effective than modern replacement windows at keeping out any drafts as well as more long lasting and attractive. How to do it is all detailed in Working Windows, as Steve mentions. One other thing: It’s possible to have a lot of air coming around the woodwork under and surrounding the window that no amount of window replacement does anything to stop. This was our situation, and because we are in a wood-frame house we were able to remove a portion of the exterior siding and insulate around and under the windows. If that’s not an option, then at least caulking the woodwork can help somewhat here.

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

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if you folks know anyone who works with their hands and is already a wood worker, themselves, not overseeing a crew, and wants to get into something like repairing old windows, you are free to direct them my way. i explored this a little ten years ago at the suggestion of a customer but decided it was too specialized. knowing what i know now, i think there could be a market and i would take the time to talk to someone about how to go about setting a business like this up. if someone put a website up advertising that they work on old wood windows, they would be getting calls from connecticut, nj, and penn and maybe they would only have to work in Brooklyn.

steve

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

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so here i am, going on a lot about something a lot of us will not want to read. for those of us who think i go on too much, I pulled this verbatim from an email which appeared in my in box yesterday “p.s. I am one of the many who enjoy your lengthy responses on Brownstoner.”.

The book i mentioned yesterday is by terence (not clarence) meany and i read bits of it last night. most of the book was dedicated to the design of the windows (to help people making physical repairs better understand them) and then telling people they can caulk the frames and reglaze the glass; stuff people said yesterday.

Meany added that spring bronze can be placed between the two “meeting rails”. i would not do this “in situ” as if you try to tap nails into the rail to set the bronze, you might break these old windows; the sash should be laid on a table. he also said spring bronze and be put above and below the sashes.

here is the issue with doing this below and above the sashes. yesterday when i said perhaps “20 layers of paint were keeping the gap between the sash tops and bot toms from nesting” i meant 20 layers of paint on the bottom of the windows because of the angle cut in the meeting rails. so if one adds a layer of thin bronze to those spots, they are increasing the gap between the two meeting rails defeating the purpose of the bevel. so the windows have to be trimmed or the bronze must be be installed at the meeting rail or a lot of paint should be removed. merely sanding some of the paint off the sill and bottom of the lower sash may allow the meeting rails to nest again. i would see if i can slip paper through them when the windows are closed to test the gap.

in so far as other weather stripping, meany did say that many of these windows already have a channel cut in the sides and an interlocking metal weather seal; the windows i worked in in Kensington did not have the seal, so they must have come later, 1920’s as we see them on doors from that period. these metal weather strips are a pain in the a&& and even meany said so, so it is not just me. if they are still present though, you might still have a good seal along the sides. if you do not have the interlocking metal strips, Meany did not suggest anything that can be installed up the sides in its place (i fear these windows are letting a lot of air in up the sides, along the worn stop moldings).

by the way, spring bronze is a 1″ or 1.5″ strip of bronze with a bend in it so when it is nailed on to something one side sticks up and then something can be closed against it and it will close the gap and prevent air from passing. Meany did mention that some modern day insulation strips can be used but that they will not work so well between the sashes on the meeting rail as they will get torn.

my guess is, this is beyond most homeowners and it is not really something i wish to get involved in as i am afraid a lot of these windows will fall a part as they are worked on.

steve

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

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the book is “Working Windows” by Clarence Meany. i have pulled it out and will take a look this evening to see if there are any suggestions as to what a homeowner can do themselves to solve some of these issues. i suspect what the author talks about though is more about really taking these apart and working on them.

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

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the way these are cut, when the bottom sash closes, the wood where the two meet is beveled so they close against one another, tightly. i would check that gap between the two. see if that is where the air is coming in. if it has grown, it could be because the stop is worn, allowing the windows to sit apart a little or now i am thinking, twenty layers of paint may be keeping these from closing just all the way down, preventing the pair of sashes from nesting.

here is the thing, while i have taken these apart here in NYC, they are not my thing. i will not get into servicing them because i am afraid people will call with things that will literally fall apart if pulled from the frames. so i do not know the scope of all of them across the city to know if even the real old ones in say brooklyn heights are manufactured the way i state above or if what i have seen was developed later and used in isolated instances.

also, if the stop molding is worn, and this is easy to replace, it will allow the windows in general too much play (not just where they meet) and th at will allow air movement.

someone in brooklyn tried to get me to learn how to service these and she loaned me a book which i thinking was titled “Working Windows”. My guess is there are ways to fix these but a lot of what will have to be done will be beyond the skill set of most homeowners and will even be a challenge for a trades person until he or she has worked on a few sets of them.

steve

GreenThinker | 5 years and 11 months ago

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Have you thought of installing a non code compliant window? It sounds like what you have now isn’t code compliant anyway, so replace it with something that looks the same and at the end of the day, no ones gonna care or even wonder about it. Unless this is a condo or co-op.

Guest User | 5 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "195579"

caulking around the frame, weatherstripping the sashes, filling gaps in the wood frame (inside and outside) with wood filler, redoing window sealant around the window panes. please keep your old windows. if treated well you will get many more years out of them than any new windows.

Guest User | 5 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "195579"

caulking around the frame, weatherstripping the sashes, filling gaps in the wood frame (inside and outside) with wood filler, redoing window sealant around the window panes. please keep your old windows. if treated well you will get many more years out of them than any new windows.

ajeb | 5 years and 11 months ago

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They need to be fully metal case, shatter proof glass etc, custom made , hence the expense.

Augustiner | 5 years and 11 months ago

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what is the requirement for lot line windows?