underlayment between hardwood and subfloor

Isn’t every situation a little different? When we did our original renovation, the floor joists on the top floor of the house needed repair so everything had to be ripped up. Our flooring contractor saved the subfloor, laid down plywood on top the joists, then reinstalled and sanded the subfloor. Looks great and, importantly, feels rock stable to this day. Much as Bob describes in his kitchen. Might be overkill in some situations but was a great solution for us.

NeoGrec

in General Discussion 4 years and 1 month ago

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Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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What’s the best underlay between a new plank oak hardwood floor and the original 100 year old plank subfloor? This would be on a basement (ground level ) with no one living underneath, so moisture barrier might be good, but sound proofing is not necessary.

The flooring store recommend the black roofing paper as it’s cheap and provides a vapor retarder. Anyone care to chime in on what they used?

andriywww1990 | 4 years and 1 month ago

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my house has old red rosin paper for the original install.. the black felt paper sounds really good.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 4 years and 1 month ago

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I don’t have enough experience to know what is the BEST practice but, FWIW, a few years ago, when I had a new oak floor installed in my kitchen over the original subfloor here’s what the floor company did:
They put down a moisture barrier first, covered by 1/2″ plywood, topped by some sort of thick black paper, followed by the new oak planks. The old subfloor (which I had refinished and used for years, was very springy. My new kitchen floor is the only one in the house that doesn’t creak when walked on.

stevecym | 4 years and 1 month ago

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The thick black paper is rooffelt

Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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I did some research, I guess the official product name is 15 Lb Black Felt Paper… I did read somewhere that it emits harsh chemical smell/offgassing… so wondering about that too.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2374212/15-lb-or-30-lb-black-felt-paper-under-hardwood

“Felt paper is simply a moisture retarder (not proofer). It also helps the installer slide the flooring in place and keeps down dust. On re-sands down the road it also helps to keep dust down by encapsulating the plywood subfloor so it won’t generate its own dust filtering up. On a mechanically fastened wood floor installed over plywood the best underlayment is Aquabar B by Fortifiber.“

https://www.hoskinghardwood.com/Department/Tools–Accessories/All-About-Underlayments.aspx?dId=14&pageId=65

“With a staple down or nail down installation over a wood subfloor using solid flooring or engineered flooring, it is recommended that an underlayment of 15lb. black felt paper is rolled out over the wood subfloor prior to installing the new floor. This hardwood felt paper is necessary to greatly reduce the cha nce of any moisture coming up through the subfloor and will help protect the new hardwood flooring. Even if you think you don’t need it and you’re tempted not to use it, it’s always better to be safe than sorry. Especially when being sorry could mean $1000’s in damage. 15 lb. black felt paper is relatively inexpensive and can be the difference between warped hardwood flooring boards in the future or a floor that stays perfectly beautiful for a lifetime.

15lb. black felt paper for flooring installations over wood subfloors looks a lot like roofing paper, but it is very different. Roofing paper is typically coated with asphalt or tar, which will emit harsh chemical odors, especially if enclosed in your home. Therefore, it’s important to make sure the 15lb. black felt paper you’re using is manufactured specifically for hardwood flooring installations.

Installation of 15lb. black felt paper is incredibly easy and fast. Simply roll the black felt paper out over the plywood subfloor, overlapping the seams approximately 4 to 6 IN. and then use a hand stapler to attach to the subfloor.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 4 years and 1 month ago

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I wonder why the company that instant kitchen floor used both a moisture barrier under the plywood and the black felt paper under the oak? They described it as a “slight upgrade “ that they were throwing in. Not that I’m complaining—redundancy is good.

andriywww1990 | 4 years and 1 month ago

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I was wondering about chemical release from the black paper. When it is new and fresh it does emit a petroleum like odor. As it ages, it seems to dry and the odor is less. But i am not sure if that means it is releasing less chemicals.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 4 years and 1 month ago

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FWIW there wasn’t a noticeable chemical odor from the black paper used in my house. Perhaps that’s the difference another commenter mentioned between roofing paper and a product intended for interior use under floors

andriywww1990 | 4 years and 1 month ago

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bob, i have never seen any variations of felt paper. different weights, yes. i am not saying they are not out there, but i have bought more than one roll of the stuff and have seen it in our favorite store and it is always in the roofing section.

there is something else, i recall about the odor. I was applying it to the roof of the shed i was building. had i been standing over it, perhaps no odor. also, if the remians of the roll had not been buried in the back of my shed right now, i would check it out to see if there is any remaining odor.

keep in mind, op might be less concerned about odor than chemical release.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 4 years and 1 month ago

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Steve,
“Squibsie” refers to a. Kind of black felt specifically for flooring rather than roofing. I’ve never shopped for the stuff so I can’t comment about availability. Maybe it’s only sold to floor companies?

andriywww1990 | 4 years and 1 month ago

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so i googled it. and all i got were returns that are nothing related to felt paper for floors but the modern replacements and there are loads of them. then i dug down and down and found “15# felt” for floors. one company but they say it is “asphalt saturated” which is just what OP is trying to avoid.

if i had to guess, before we had all this stuff to choose from, say before the 1970’s or 80’s, they just used plain old roofing felt.

krobertson

in General Discussion 4 years and 1 month ago

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I put down ‘TechnoFloor Acoustic Recycled Rubber Underlayment’ beneath my new hardwood floors primarily for sound proofing but it as a moisture barrier as well which may work for your case. I don’t think it actually works well for sound proofing since I can still hear a good amount of sounds upstairs but then again I don’t have a ‘before’ to compare it to.