Tenants, heat, power outages...

Just to discuss.
It is not a secret that all our furnaces are working only when we have electricity.
And I even not going into electrical heat furnaces territory
( where we all will be forced to go pretty soon, I have this feeling).
Those older style furnaces, “dirty” and not efficient had at least a pilot light.
Comes power outage – you at least stay warm.

Recently I saw an article with claims that our current electrical infrastructure could not support the demand that will come with new rules to move from using fossil fuels for heating.
Winter demand – that is.

Now I can not stop thinking about our tenants.
3 families, small children in each.
Power outage – no heat.
There are code restrictions on how the furnace can be powered.
You can not just unplug the furnace and plug it into, say, solar charged battery.
House is reasonably insulated brownstone: crawl space blown in, some north walls, top line windows, doors, and, of course, that brownstone bonus – only 2 shorter 20′ walls are exterior.

Still, without heat and when it is below freezing outside it could be da mn cold in 24+ hours.

Generator in the backyard – see furnace powering codes limitation.

Am I the only one feeling an anxiety over this issue?

lucie

in General Discussion 1 year and 4 months ago

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hkapstein | 1 year and 4 months ago

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Ok Olga I do see your point. Why install a transfer switch when you just want a a battery to keep the heat running? If you’re burning gas, and there is gas, why the heck should your tenants be freezing cold? I get it and I have also thought about this. On the other hand, for me anyway, it doesn’t not seem like such a big deal to install a transfer switch for one or a couple circuits to keep the heat and maybe hot water on. Fridges would be nice if possible. Rather than using solar, you could maybe use a grid charged battery or a small generator.

Now I note you use the term furnace rather than boiler. A steam systems needs only a little electricity for it’s controls, the steam doesn’t need electricity to go to a radiator. But a hot water system needs pumps and a hot air system needs fans and maybe even dampers. So if you try to do something, make sure you’re wired and have enough power for everything you need.

@steve, if you’re not certain you know what you’re doing, it’s really best to consult an engineer rather than a contractor

lucie | 1 year and 4 months ago

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Urbandad, we have oil furnace in our vacation house. When older furnace gave up it was replaced by newer model. The same thing: no pilot light, no electricity – no heat.
Once we are done with our current restoration project
we plan to do enhancements in our vacation house including safer type small solar system, transfer switch and powering furnace and other necessities.
Some our neighbors did that because power outages happen minimum twice a year.
But I do not think that most of Brooklyn houses have lots and space big enough to do solar in a way that is safer.

lucie | 1 year and 4 months ago

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Urbandad, we have oil furnace in our vacation house. When older furnace gave up it was replaced by newer model. The same thing: no pilot light, no electricity – no heat.
Once we are done with our current restoration project
we plan to do enhancements in our vacation house including safer type small solar system, transfer switch and powering furnace and other necessities.
Some our neighbors did that because power outages happen minimum twice a year.
But I do not think that most of Brooklyn houses have lots and space big enough to do solar in a way that is safer.

lucie | 1 year and 4 months ago

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HomeInspector, I think I read “how to” on what you describe: there was a thread somewhere when one anonymous contractor from Staten Island described how he hooked furnaces for his neighbors when power was lost for long time after Sandy.

I think I do not like an idea of generator where you use gasoline in general, but so far I do not see any alternative. Solar lithium batteries… With recent deadly fire in Brooklyn that started from those – not a good idea either.
There are natural gas electric generators, those are safer, but with an existing ban on new lines in new homes I really do not know how easy it would be to get a permit to install natural gas powered generators.

I feel that we would need to replace our functioning but less efficient gas furnace sooner then later, or it will be too late and existing gas furnaces replacement will be very complicated as well. Newer models with 95% efficiency are really smaller, and it will be more then enough space in our boiler room to incorporate smaller size natural gas based generator.

The whole furnace replacement pr ocedure is moderately invasive: we will have to run direct vent to the backyard instead of using chimney ( 3 floors up chimney is too long for higher efficiency furnace).
So, generator job could be incorporated in the whole project and it would be slightly cheaper then 2 separate jobs.

But could we get a permit for this in current situation where everything “natural gas” is banned more and more?

lucie | 1 year and 4 months ago

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HomeInspector, I think I read “how to” on what you describe: there was a thread somewhere when one anonymous contractor from Staten Island described how he hooked furnaces for his neighbors when power was lost for long time after Sandy.

I think I do not like an idea of generator where you use gasoline in general, but so far I do not see any alternative. Solar lithium batteries… With recent deadly fire in Brooklyn that started from those – not a good idea either.
There are natural gas electric generators, those are safer, but with an existing ban on new lines in new homes I really do not know how easy it would be to get a permit to install natural gas powered generators.

I feel that we would need to replace our functioning but less efficient gas furnace sooner then later, or it will be too late and existing gas furnaces replacement will be very complicated as well. Newer models with 95% efficiency are really smaller, and it will be more then enough space in our boiler room to incorporate smaller size natural gas based generator.

The whole furnace replacement pr ocedure is moderately invasive: we will have to run direct vent to the backyard instead of using chimney ( 3 floors up chimney is too long for higher efficiency furnace).
So, generator job could be incorporated in the whole project and it would be slightly cheaper then 2 separate jobs.

But could we get a permit for this in current situation where everything “natural gas” is banned more and more?

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 4 months ago

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No urbandad. My way is not code compliant.

People here in the city where we do not lose power all the time do not want the expense of a transfer switch and a permantly mounted generator and the fuel storage problems that come with it.

It is great that neighbors help neighbors. But it takes a contractor to understand the bigger picture.

hkapstein | 1 year and 4 months ago

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The usual way would be to install a transfer switch and hook your generator or battery up to that, is that not code compliant? I didn’t check. Cate how does your oil burner work without electricity?

cate | 1 year and 4 months ago

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It is a concern and I don’t know the answer. If we ever add mini splits with cooling/heating we will not get rid of our oil-fed boiler and radiators. Then again, we are in a small house so exempt from the move to electric.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 4 months ago

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You deserve to be anxious with no heat and tenants when it is this cold out.

i have three generators here including a rather large one and i can tell you what i would do with that “power code limitation” if i had no power for 24 hours.

i am not going to tell you how to do this here on this forum because it could be dangerous but when we lose power here, i back feed my generator into my house. I am not going to tell anyone how to do this, so please do not call or email and ask. i will tell you, if you find out how to do it and do it, be sure the main breaker is OFF in your panel box. the utility companies do not wanting us doing this because it presents a danger to the workers.

if you back feed in, you can power your house. i have a generator that will carry the load of the house and two window AC units. even still when i do this, i turn off breakers to things we do not need.

We lost power here two weeks ago, 18 hours, and about 5 minutes after i wired my generator up and started it, the power came back on.