Tenant wants lead testing.
She said pediatrician tested her toddler for lead and she has level above the treshhold.
Now… we do not have anything that we did not touch in this apartment for 20 years.
Floors throughout the apartment is new oak about 12 years old, all new windows with new frames and windowsills, some replaced twice, wood trims were sanded,
stripped in some places, floor basedboards sanded or replaced and painted..
Kitchen was moved with an architect permit, original room taken to the studs, new kitchen – almost everything, and tiled over.
Bathrooms were taken to the brick, all pipes replaced, wonderboarded and tiled, new watermain…
Ceiling – we have original only in 2 rooms, one – painted over tin and one – plaster.
The rest was replaced with sheetrock or laminated with sheetrock.
Walls – either were skimcoated in 2 larger rooms, or sheetrocked.
We had 5 families in this apartment, naturally, we renovate and paint each time. We do not like paint caked over, so, patches and all woodwork was lightly sanded before new coat of paint.
so, everything was painted over at least 5 times .
I am at loss: what could be wrong. Thinking about it – we have nothing to worry about. We raised our child in apartment below, and it was much less renovated while our child was a toddler. We did lead testing on her too, and it was normal.
We had many toddlers in the apartment I was describing. 6 toddlers to be exact. Never had we face this problem.
Still I am scared to death now.
lucie
in General Discussion 2 years and 3 months ago
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172 replies
lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago
Could it be the water from the city pipes?
We had city water pipes replaced on our block
lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago
Read to the end. Yes, carpeting could be the place. It is already a second set of new carpeting. We have maintenance coming once a month to vacuum it.
lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago
Read to the end. Yes, carpeting could be the place. It is already a second set of new carpeting. We have maintenance coming once a month to vacuum it.
lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago
I forgot to mention: water main snd sewer line were first things that we replaced when we bought the building in 2004.
That is how we met our licensed plumber whom we used for almost 20 years, all renovations, all inspections.
Wr are small 3 family and tried to do everything by the book and common sense.
In fact we lived in the apartment below the one i am describing for 10 years before we renovated it – other 2 for tenants above completely renovated first.
Our child is on the spectrum, diagnosed before we moved in. Our apartment had old everything and some shoddy 80s renovation.
We tested our child for lead because of this several times, all tests were clean.
lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago
I forgot to mention: water main snd sewer line were first things that we replaced when we bought the building in 2004.
That is how we met our licensed plumber whom we used for almost 20 years, all renovations, all inspections.
Wr are small 3 family and tried to do everything by the book and common sense.
In fact we lived in the apartment below the one i am describing for 10 years before we renovated it – other 2 for tenants above completely renovated first.
Our child is on the spectrum, diagnosed before we moved in. Our apartment had old everything and some shoddy 80s renovation.
We tested our child for lead because of this several times, all tests were clean.
brokelin | 2 years and 3 months ago
If your concern is about liability, obviously you would want to consult an attorney who knows about lead issues – ask if they can advise you about what steps to take next.
brokelin | 2 years and 3 months ago
I don’t think it is really your responsibility, or place, to suggest that the child may have been exposed to lead elsewhere. Obviously, if the child spends time in other environments (such as day care of any sort), that will also be on the parents’ radar. And of course there are potential food and toy exposures that they will likely be looking into. But I think that all you have to be concerned about is showing that the exposure isn’t from your unit, or remediating any lead exposure that is found in your housing unit. It makes sense that the parents will want to make sure there is no lead contamination from the home unit, once a high blood level has been found, even if they do ultimately find another source of exposure – as there could be more than one place of exposure, and they would be remiss not to check everything their child comes into contact with.
You don’t mention that you replaced the lead water main that was common in many of these old houses – that could be a source of lead from the drinking water (even if it was not in the past, it could have undergone further deterioration.) So test your water. Other sources, given the extensive work you described, could be (1) the wearing away of paint down to leaded paint on door frames where doors come in contact with frames when closing and opening (the same would be true for windows if there were any wood frames or framing left to rub when opening and closing, though it sounds like there isn’t with your replacement windows), (2) lead paint dust left in floor cracks or other crevices or on other woodwork from previous sanding that was not meticulously cleaned up (though it is hard to clean up from floor cracks), and (3) unseen places where old gobs or chips of paint are coming loose near woodwork, riser pipes, etc., where you never saw paint coming loose before.
I once caught my friends’ preschool-aged child starting to eat a gob of paint near a kitchen windowsill and riser, and brought it to their attention – the parents were right there in the kitchen cooking dinner with us, and had never noticed the paint chipping, or the child eating it before. This was Columbia family graduate student housing, and the unit was well-maintained and looked to be in great shape, but old painted areas can always chip away over time. I had read that children like the taste of leaded paint because it is sweet, but would not have believed it if I hadn’t seen it for myself. This child was old enough that they weren’t putting random things in their mouth any more, and whip smart as well about what was food and what wasn’t – so there must be something particularly sweet and alluring about paint.
It sounds like you don’t have that much to check up on in your place, given how much you’ve replaced – likely just water, potential old dust, and potential new chips or worn away areas by doors. Also, it occurs to me that if you have carpeting on your stairs, that could be a source for harboring old dust, given that you’ve done sanding work, as children often use their hands on the stairs, and of course are then putting them in their mouths after.
lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago
Apartment was freshly renovated before they moved in. Nobody sanding anything there. Child is 11 months old, probably crowling.
Floors are 12 years old oak the whole apartment, except where tiled (also by us).
The only thing could be doors. They are rountinely sanded and painted over between tenants but never were completely stripped.
I could not think of the child activity that could come close to sanding an old door several times over. Hell, this child does not even has a lot of teeth for her age to be able to bite off fresh paint deep underneath…
lucie | 2 years and 3 months ago
Apartment was freshly renovated before they moved in. Nobody sanding anything there. Child is 11 months old, probably crowling.
Floors are 12 years old oak the whole apartment, except where tiled (also by us).
The only thing could be doors. They are rountinely sanded and painted over between tenants but never were completely stripped.
I could not think of the child activity that could come close to sanding an old door several times over. Hell, this child does not even has a lot of teeth for her age to be able to bite off fresh paint deep underneath…
cate | 2 years and 3 months ago
It’s a scary scenario. The city will require lead testing of surfaces above a certain threshold. If I were you, I would try speaking gently with the parent. Briefly explain the situation and ask if the child could be getting lead from a source outside the home. Is she playing in the dirt at the park, daycare, or community garden? Dirt in Brooklyn contains high levels of lead. Is she getting it from another house or building such as daycare? Foods that are high in lead such as baby food, dark chocolate or white or brown rice? Furniture or old toys with lead paint? If there is peeling lead paint or lead paint dust anywhere, that is particularly hazardous.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago
I cannot tell you what to do but i am aware that if blood lead level reaches 10 parts per whatever, it will trigger a response from the city. In this climate, with landlords presumed guilty, you have to do something.
If this were me, i would start with those lead test swabs that turn pink. I would test all surfaces but especially those spaces where dust settles. Every where, every floor. Even the lower floors. The reason i say the lower floors is because a house is a giant chimney and stack effect will move dust up through all sorts of spaces. Also, assume it could have remained in floor boards and if these are older, with no rosin paper between the finish floor and sub floor, trapped dust might move up.
Once you have your results from a self test, i would call a testing and abatement firm and ask them what you can do to protect yourself from the city maybe making an unsubstantiated claim. I would call them not matter what my own test results are be they negative or positive. If they are positive, you know you have a problem but even if they are negative you might want to talk to them and see how to proceed and see if they think they can find something you missed and see what they recommend.
This is what has already happened. The child’s doctor has notified the nyc dept of health and they have sent or will send the parent a letter. They will schedule a call with the parent. I do not know if they attempt to call landlords. Perhaps you can call the dept of health anonymously and put some questions to them. Maybe they can tell you how to proceed but i would not identify myself. Pretend you are calling the irs to ask some general questions.
I had elevated lead in my body and the doctor and health dept explained to me that it could have come from one exposure. A four or five hour afternoon i spent sanding 100 year old doors 3 mos before i had blood work.
The health dept did not do follow up with me because i am adult. With the child, they are going to follow this up in a few months and if it does not fall or worse if it hits 10 pp… they will move to the next level.
When the city was dealing with me, they were very intent on getting to or being sure that i understood the source.
gururoofing | 2 years and 3 months ago
Your tenant can ask the city to send a team out and have the place tested for lead and they don’t need to discuss it with you first. We did that in our last apartment in a large rent stabilized building for the same reason as your current tenant. They were great, didn’t find a lead issue, but fined the landlord for other safety violations.