Stripping/Sanding doors
I came across some old interior doors I would like to try to refinish(paint). I tested one for lead paint with a test kit and it was negative. I’ll probably send some chips to the lab to confirm, but I’ve found the tests to be pretty reliable, so assuming the doors are lead free, would it be better to sand or strip the wood? I tried some citristrip, but it’s really not getting the job done, and it will use a huge amount of citristrip to get the job done. I’m considering making a steam box and steaming them or sanding them off with a sander. Which do you think will be a better experience for a DIYer?
Thanks!
hkapstein
in General Discussion 4 years and 7 months ago
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stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago
You dont want scrapers. You might tear the wood. Google wax carving tools. The little round one that looks like the old mcdonalds coffee stirrers works great in corners and will not damage the wood.
hkapstein | 4 years and 7 months ago
Here is how it looked after the first steam session. I want to get some smaller scrapers for details and mouldings on the other side. I’m still working on the best way to use the steamer, but my productivity is definitely improving with practice. As you can see some areas came out much better than others. As steve suggests, I’m liking the idea of the citrastrip on the areas I didn’t do a great job. When I studied them, it seems sometimes the texture of the wood made it difficult to get the scraper in, and although I could reheat and pick it out, I worry that over working the areas could give a worse result. I think heating them up the right amount with the steamer so that the paint stays together but is soft enough to peel out in one piece is the key. On the other hand, the stuff left is mostly varnish residue I think that I might be able to just paint over, so that’s something to think abou too.
Basically I used the steamer like you might use a heat gun. It comes with two heads, a large one, and a smaller one. I hold it over the door section for a few seconds, maybe up to 3-10 seconds and then slide it down and scrape with my 5 in 1 tool.
Another thing that became clear, is that it was much easier to work the door vertically than lying flat as the runoff from the steam would not pool on the door but would drip down and mostly evaporate. Even better is to work it from the top down so the water is running on the old paint instead of the wood, although even on the wood it didn’t seem to be really enough to wet down the wood. The other advantage is that the steam rises above the steam head to where the scraper is working which give a little more control over the temperature there to keep the job moving. I still think there’s a lot of room for improvement, so I’d love to hear any thoughts.
The steam does cause the paint to bubble up, but once it cools down, it becomes hard again, and does not peel off. Now that said, if I steamed the whole door for a long time, would it separate the paint more permanently? I don’t know. I could leave the steamer on it for a few minutes and see what happens.
[20210127_013754smaller](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:HVQr:20210127_013754smaller.jpg.jpg)
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 7 months ago
keep in mind that with a varnish under lay, stuff comes off easier. varnish tends to be softer and easier to remove than paint and is not a good bond between wood and paint. that citrus stuff you were using is great on varnish.
JohnHancock | 4 years and 7 months ago
Do you let it steam for 45 minutes or steam and then scrape and then steam some more?
stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago
If that is taking you 45 minutes a side you are doing great. Sometimess i find it is good to keep the old methylene chloride around for the trim and corners.
JohnHancock | 4 years and 7 months ago
That’s very impressive, way better than most strippers!
hkapstein | 4 years and 7 months ago
I decided to explore the steaming option, and wow was I was impressed! I purchased a wagner 715 wallpaper steamer at home depot, currently 35 dollars. I was prepared to make a steam box but I decided to try it out as is first. Here’s a test patch I did, it took me about 45 minutes to do a side using the steamer at a 5 in 1 tool. Will post a pic when I get ot it. I could probably use some better scrapers, but for a paint finish I think it’s not bad. Interestingly I could see and smell that the first coating was a varnish which I did not expect with these doors from an old law tenement. I do not see any serious damage to the wood from the steam using this technique. Would the steambox be faster? I don’t know, the paint hardens up pretty quickly once it cools. It might be worth a test though.
[20210126_182803](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:0kin:20210126_182803.jpg.jpg)
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 7 months ago
@ dork. urbandads quote sounds about right. i used to hear 150. i have never had anything dipped. we use a lot of elbow grease.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 7 months ago
@ urband dad, with chemical and labor, using rock miracle it used to cost me about 240 a door (i had looked into making my own methylene chloride). with the lye, it costs me about 170 a door. once the lye sets for 12 hours or so, the stripping moves fast. faster than the rock miracle. it is so fast that i have begun stripping my own work instead of farming it out.
the lye is much more pleasant to work with than the methylene and new formulations. we just have to be careful not to get it on clothing and track it in the house. of course people must take safety precautions but we should have been doing that all along with methylene.
i have not used peel away in years but seem to think that their smaller pail did one side of a door. is that a one or two gallons pail, i forget. i think it is 1.5. it is very expensive to do a door. when i first called peel away about their product, we were trying to find out WHY it can remove 15 layers and what makes it different than Rock Miracle. it was then we learned that the only reason Peel Away removes 15 coats i s because they tell us to cover it with plastic. otherwise it would dry out – just like the rock miracle. so what we did was begin covering the rock miracle with plastic and guess what, it softened 15 layers of paint. i called Rock Miracle and told them that they should market their product as being able to remove 15 layers of paint with a plastic film over it, like peel away. Rock miracle did not change their directions to reflect this and i suspect why was they would have seen sales drop as people would be able to use one gallon to strip a door instead of two.
@ cate we don’t like dipping because it can interfere with the glue joints.
cate | 4 years and 7 months ago
Take it to a place that strips by dunking the doors in a bath and knows what they are doing. I have done this and they were terrific. Worst thing was the drive.
hkapstein | 4 years and 7 months ago
Update, after reading steve’s post, I looked at the msds for peel away 1. Guess what the active ingredient is, yep it’s just sodium hydroxide, aka lye.
hkapstein | 4 years and 7 months ago
@ dorkofwindsor, I was quoted 175 per door for a dip and strip. If it’s possible to do it cheaper, that might be interesting.
hkapstein | 4 years and 7 months ago
Thanks for all the comments here. I got these 6 doors for about 30 bucks each, so it doesn’t totally eliminate my sticking issue, but it may reduce the workload if I can use some of them. To be clear, I am very aware of the dangers presented by lead and stripping chemicals. I have a bottle of methylene chloride on hand from before it was restricted, but I really don’t want to use it. I considered using a caustic stripper like lye, which is cheaper, but also unpleasant to work with. I think I’d rather spend more time and not use lye. It’s also not great weather for working outside.
With respect to steam damage, it’s possible it would damage the door, but I think it would probably be okay and again I didn’t pay much for the doors.
I’m considering useing peel away 1, but it’s about 150-200 bucks for 5 gallons, but the question is, will 5 gallons be enough for 6 doors? I suspect not.
dorkofwindsor | 4 years and 7 months ago
I guess this is a good time to throw a general question out to Steve and the rest of the forum: how much does it cost for a dip around these parts?
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 7 months ago
to what putnam said, sanding is bad. when we do we use the rotex with the festool extractor. and with heat, we have to be careful. too much heat, it smokes and guess what, airborne lead.
chemical is probably they safest from a lead standpoint. i have to say something else, i mentioned something on another post about a sanitation worker getting hit in the face with an acid years ago and i also told someone else here that they can dry paint with saw dust yet i declined to donate any saw dust to that person’s cause and this is why; this is what we do with the spent lye/paint mix: we put it in bags in and mix the saw dust in and let it dry completely before putting it in the waste stream (and yes the city allows the lead to go there and if we took it to a pay drop off site, that is where it would end up). we specifically do this because of that sanitation worker getting killed in 1995 or so and also because i had a chemical hit me in the eyes in the 1980’s.
Putnamdenizen | 4 years and 7 months ago
Lead paint ain’t no joke. Be aware not only of your own health, but that of your young children. Unfortunately sometimes the children of DIY gentrifiers show the same high level of lead in their blood as do children growing up in substandard housing. Sounds like OP is well-informed and able, but using this post as a place to share a gentle warning.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 7 months ago
thank you bob for suggesting that the steam will damage the wood as it made me think of this: the lye discolors the wood so you cannot use it on anything that will be stained and clear coated. painted only.
in so far as steam damaging the wood. if you can work with the steam on a the painted surface and keep it off the wood, it is less of a worry. the steam does soften the wood but when it dries it goes back to normal.
and of all of the things we have tried here, including the infrared heat i like the lye the best.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 4 years and 7 months ago
Isn’t there a possibility that a steamer might damage the doors? In any case you don’t have to strip them anywhere near as cleanly as you’d need for a natural finish.
T he e only painted woodwork in our house was in the kitchen, with MANY coats obscuring the details. A few years ago we had it roughly stripped before repainting. The painter used some sort of peel-away stripper. It looks great.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 7 months ago
by the way, sometimes when we have a lot of layers on old doors and we can pull the moldings and restick them, that is what we do. we do that a lot as opposed to stripping the molding. i know, i know, the sticking is what you are trying to avoid.