steam heat

I have a steam heat boiler located in the front part of the cellar in a 2 family house; i recently had my thermostat replaced and we put the heat at 68 from 11 pm – 6 am; 72 all day; the heat does not heat up well on the 3rd floor apartment; any suggestions what to do

terryhoppy

in General Discussion 4 years and 7 months ago

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familyplumber | 4 years and 7 months ago

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One thing that is often overlooked is that if the Pressure Control is set to high it will limit the amount of heat in the top floor apartment. I often find that when a homeowner complains of lack of heat on top floor someone immediately raises the Pressure Trol foolishly thinking this will correct the problem when in fact it makes it worse. So that is the first thing that should be checked. As far as Air Vents are concerned, in order to balance a steam system the size of air is based on the the size of the radiator not its location. You want to remove the air from the largest size radiators as quickly as possible no matter what floor they are on so that all radiators receive steam evenly.

familyplumber | 4 years and 7 months ago

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One thing that is often overlooked is that if the Pressure Control is set to high it will limit the amount of heat in the top floor apartment. I often find that when a homeowner complains of lack of heat on top floor someone immediately raises the Pressure Trol foolishly thinking this will correct the problem when in fact it makes it worse. So that is the first thing that should be checked. As far as Air Vents are concerned, in order to balance a steam system the size of air is based on the the size of the radiator not its location. You want to remove the air from the largest size radiators as quickly as possible no matter what floor they are on so that all radiators receive steam evenly.

Master Plvmber | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Urbandad is correct. The Hoffman 1A on the highest settings (negligible difference between settings 5 & 6) vents less than half the air of a Gorton D and is equal to the venting capacity of a Gorton #6 vent.

hkapstein | 4 years and 7 months ago

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I like the Hoffman 1A for balancing, but it won’t work where a gorton D is needed.

Master Plvmber | 4 years and 7 months ago

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This thread is painful.

Gorton used to make one air vent body able to accept graduating sizes of venting orifices that were screwed in and out as needed. From small to large they were, and still are (in the fixed-vent version) labeled as 4, 5, 6, C, and D. After that, they go to a large thread size for main distribution pipes and the sizes are #1 and #2. The Gorton #2 is equal to four of the #1 vents. Trust me. I know a lot about vents.

Stevecym is right. Or was right.

stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Op. Getting heat up there is going to require experimentation. No permitz offered up the D size. If you go to gortons website, you will see that the d is much bigger than the next size below. Gorton says the d goes furthest from the boiler, which sounds like your third floor anyway. I would definately consider that but would also look at what is there now and plan on going larger but might start somewhere in between or maybe put a d on the one of them and see where that goes before spending the money on swapping them all to any one size.

As a homeowner and not a plumber, i had a bit of back and forth to the hardware when i did this before getting it right.

stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago

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It turns out i have a mix of gorton and maid of mist in this house and i have checked them. Both brands are 14 yrs old. The plating on the gortons is like new but the plating on the maid of mist is showing rust – so they have to be watched or changed.

Like the others say, its better to spend more and thatvworks in most cases around the house.

Sorry i doubted you no permitz. I can not figure out how i got a mix and i always had an inkling that gorton was better.

yudashasom | 4 years and 7 months ago

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It’s worth paying the few extra dollars for the Gortons if you know exactly the type you need. Groton has a chart you can follow. People will say it’s DIY, but if you want to properly balance your system and get the most out it, efficiency, etc. have a pro take a look. There’s not many people who know steam systems well anymore.

stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago

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So, they are maid of mist. And i removed one and looked at it and rust appears to be coming through after say 14 years, to emans point.

stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago

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I hate to admit it, but i am looking at photos on line and the gortons, with the hole on the side of the nub at the top of the vent, that’s not what i was messing with.

yudashasom | 4 years and 7 months ago

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@Steve, I should have used a different word than adjustable. But either way, Gortons vents are not modifiable in the way you describe.

stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago

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I am not at home to check but i am pretty sure that those are gortons that i found you can swap the orifice on. Gorton does not advertise this fact. I found it on my own.

Guest User | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Varivents are a piece of junk unless you go for the Danfoss version
https://assets.danfoss.com/documents/101424/AI000086403792en-US0201.pdf.
All you end up doing is incessantly unbalancing the system. You are way better off sticking to fixed size vents made by Gorton. Correctly balance the system and leave it alone. BTW Steve is thinking of the Maidomist steam vents which have interchangeable orifices…another piece of junk in my opinion

stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Op, hoffman and something called varivalve make adjustable vents. If you put those in you will alleviate some of the guessing games and trips to the hardware store i went through before realizing i could swap the orifices on the gorton.

stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago

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@no permitz. GORTON does NOT make an adjustible vent and i did NOT say that they do. I said that you can REMOVE the orifice on the GORTON vent and SWAP it. What i am saying is the orifices are THREADED the same on all of the gorton vents, at least on the common ones in the hardware stores, making them interchangeable. The concept of the interchangeable part is not new, i think it was Henry Ford who devised it about 1907.

I will tell you something else. I once needed a larger orifice on a vent so i removed it and driiled it out larger and put it back on. Bingo.

When you have been repairing things for a long time, you begin to look at them a different way and realize that manufacturers and and the system in general, including a lot of people on here, would rather have us believe that it is all very complicated and that we should not attempt to step out of the box and think on our own.

All this said, there is a manufacurer who makes adjustible steam vents. I have nit seen one in a long time. It was not gorton, maybe hoffman.

hkapstein | 4 years and 7 months ago

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You can read up on balancing a 1 pipe steam system with air vents.

yudashasom | 4 years and 7 months ago

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I’d have “eman” take a look.

Probably need to put Groton D vents on there.

I’m not an expert but I’ve never seen an adjustable Gorton like Steve mentioned

stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Whatever you do and whatever anyone tells you, do not touch any settings on the boiler itself. If you think something is off there, call a licensed pro.

stevecym | 4 years and 7 months ago

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What you are doing by increasing the vent size on the top floor is allowing cool air to bleed from the radiators faster, so steam can get in sooner and heat those rooms for a longer time before the thermostat says the house is warm enough and shuts it all down. Its a game of minutes.