Shed | Grandfathered Dimensions and Rec to Build
urban sheds doesn’t appear to work in NYC.
Putnamdenizen
in General Discussion 4 years and 2 months ago
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bocuckoo | 4 years and 6 months ago
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We have a large shed that was on the property when we purchased with a mortgage etc. It is 12’x20’x9′ high. It is deteriorated and needs basically full removal and replacement. I am told we can “repair” the shed to the original dimensions without permit and any issue at resale. Any guidance? Also, any recommendations for a contractor who could perform the work?
Thanks
cate | 4 years and 6 months ago
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That is correct re repair and that is probably the best way to go, IMHO, since this is an existing structure likely original to the house. Are you working with an architect, an engineer, and an experienced, licensed and insured contractor? First of all, you want to make sure you know what the problem truly is, so you can address it. We had no clue, and different people had different opinions, but the experienced and licensed ones agreed our foundation was not proper. It was crooked, didn’t go deep enough into the ground, and wasn’t connected properly to the walls. As a result there was no way to make the shed airtight or leak proof. We repaired the foundation and opted to keep our existing shed walls, although it probably would have been more sensible to replace them because they are crooked, rotted and full of holes, which we patched. Good luck.
cate | 4 years and 6 months ago
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Also please be forewarned that repairing the shed may have potential to slightly affect your home’s interior. When repairing our shed foundation, the masons were extremely careful to support the shed walls and make sure nothing moved. The shed itself, the roof, and everything adjacent on the ground floor came through unscathed. Inexplicably, defying all common sense, a corner of the rear of our parlor floor, which does meet the roof of the shed, sagged a bit after the shed repair was done. I can only surmise perhaps a load lifted or moved here, creating a bit of a reaction in the old wood framing on this level, two floors above where the main beam runs in the cellar. Or it could be a coincidence. You might want to discuss with your engineer the proper precautions to take to minimize movement.
bocuckoo | 4 years and 6 months ago
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Thanks Cate. It is a free standing structure at the rear of the property so the fears you noted are probably not applicable. Right now is really just a “home” for neighborhood “wildlife”. Is there a percentage of structure that we need to maintain to call it a repair vs a rebuild?
cate | 4 years and 6 months ago
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Do you mean it is not attached to the house? (Shed is the word everyone uses for the rear extension or mudroom in which you sometimes find a bathroom or laundry if you are lucky.) There might be a guideline as to percent of structure — that rings a bell — but speak to your architect, etc.
bocuckoo | 4 years and 6 months ago
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Yes. It is at the rear of the property and is 12′ x 20′ (property line to property line). I dont have an architect but welcome any recommendation for one that deals with this type of issue. THanks
cate | 4 years and 6 months ago
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Oh I see. My comments concern only the original extensions in the rear of the houses. I guess if you are certain the structure is original, legal when it was built, and grandfathered in, then likely repair is the way to go. I would consult with an architect on all these matters. Unfortunately, I cannot make recommendations because I work for Brownstoner.
hkapstein | 4 years and 6 months ago
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Is the shed on the sandborn fire maps? Do some research and find out. There’s some maps you can see online at NYPL’s website, and you can order a sandborn series. If it existed legally before the zoning resolution, then you are normally allowed to keep it. And you generally don’t need a permit to repair a shed, so in that situation I think I would just do it. There may be some advantages to preserving at least a portion of the original material in case anyone challenges whether it stood continuously, but I’ve not heard of that coming up much so far.
jimhillra | 4 years and 6 months ago
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The rule is 50%. If you’re rebuilding more than 50%, it’s a new building. As for code, etc., if it’s a shed, and not a garage, ZR 23-44 lists permitted obstructions in rear yards and a shed is permissible if it meets the requirements:
“Sheds, tool rooms or other similar accessory buildings or other structures for domestic or agricultural storage, with a height not exceeding 10 feet above the level of the rear yard or rear yard equivalent”
bocuckoo | 4 years and 6 months ago
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Super helpful. Thank you all.
Yes I just looked and it is on the Sandborn Fire Maps dated 1886! Its difficult to assess whether 50% or greater but plan to use reclaimed timbers for some of the framing as well.
jimhillra | 4 years and 6 months ago
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Here’s the building code on minor alterations and ordinary repairs:
28-105.4.2 Minor alterations and ordinary repairs. A permit shall not be required for minor alterations and ordinary repairs.§28-105.4.2.1 Definitions. The following words and terms shall, for the purposes of this section 28-105.4.2 and as used elsewhere in this code, have the meanings shown herein.
MINOR ALTERATIONS. Minor changes or modifications in a building or any part thereof, excluding additions thereto, that do not in any way affect health or the fire or structural safety of the building or the safe use and operation of the service equipment therein. Minor alterations shall not include any of the work described as “work not constituting minor alterations or ordinary repairs.”
ORDINARY REPAIRS. Replacements or renewals of existing work in a building, or of parts of the service equipment therein, with the same or equivalent materials or equipment parts, that are made in the ordinary course of maintenance and that do not in any way affect health orthe fire or structural safety of the building or th e safe use and operation of the service equipment therein. Ordinary repairs shall include the repair or replacement of any plumbing fixture, piping or faucets from any exposed stop valve to the inlet side of a trap. Ordinary repairs shall not include any of the work described as “work not constituting minor alterations or ordinary repairs.”
hkapstein | 4 years and 6 months ago
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But Jim 50% over what period? If you rebuilt 50% in 1976 and now it needs a 25% repair, that usually wouldn’t trigger the requirements. And 50% of what? The value of the shed? The area of the shed? It may br someone arbitrary how this gets interpreted, but if you do a reasonable repair and nobody complains, I doubt after a few years anyone will say you repaired 75% and it not longer qualifies.
cate | 4 years and 6 months ago
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Sometimes one sees commercial construction sites with an Alt-1 or Alt-2 permit where there appears to be exactly one original brick left. Or possibly less than one original brick left. It does make one wonder about these sites.
muyoxiqcak | 4 years and 2 months ago
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Contact https://www.urban-sheds.com/. They will help you with the repair to the original dimension and you won’t be needing another permit.