Roof hatched - locked or unlocked?
When I first saw my house on 1974 the wooden roof hatch had been secured with hooks and eyes. The sellytold me that thieves had gained entry through it. I replaced the hooks with hasps and padlocks. 40 years later I replaced that wooden hatch with a more secure Bilco metal hatch, although my main motivation was that the wood hatch was heavy and hard to open—and even harder to put back in place.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 4 months ago
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NewOwner | 3 years and 4 months ago
Brownstoners, I have a fire safety / burglary safety question. Our roof hatch, which is accessible via ladder, has been kept closed with an unlocked combination lock – ie, something that the apartment residents can easily take out if they need to access the roof, but that would make it really difficult for an intruder from the outside to come in.
That said, I’m wondering if this violates some sort of fire safety best practice if a fireman needs to come in? How do other buildings handle this? For what it’s worth, we’re in a 4-unit, 4 story brownstone.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 4 months ago
I don’t think my Bilco roof hatch can be opened from the outside, but I keep a U-bolt in the inside place for a padlock—just in case. I had four hasps and padlocks on my previous wooden hatch. I have a one-family house—there likely are other considerations for multiple dwellings.
MDR | 3 years and 4 months ago
It is supposed to be unlocked so that in case of a fire an occupant or a firefighter can access the roof using the permanently secured non flammable ladder. The roof hatch needs to be secured so no one can open it from above but there are lots of ways to do that that don’t involve locks- I’ve seen chains and s-hooks, a hasp with a shackle, etc.
cate | 3 years and 4 months ago
If it’s secured with a chain instead of a lock, how would a firefighter be able to open it? Also, where does one get a permanently secured non flammable ladder?
NeoGrec | 3 years and 4 months ago
I leave the key in the padlock. It’s locked against anyone trying to break in from the roof. But firemen can access the roof simply by turning the key — which happened when they came to investigate a possible chimney fire next door. Easy enough.
NewOwner | 3 years and 4 months ago
Based on the replies, sounds like folks are just making sure that firemen (and residents) can get out when they need to, not solving for the issue of firemen needing to get inside *from* the roof, right?
andriywww1990 | 3 years and 4 months ago
new owner et al: i got threatened with a violation once during a fire inspection because we had put a lock on the door to the roof of a commercial building. this was over 20 years ago and i am doing my best to recall the answer to the question that new owner asks: “firemen needing to get from the inside to the roof?” i think new owner has it correct, i think our mistake was locking it from the inside so no one could get out and i do recall getting out of that violation by having a member of my team turn the lock around right then, with the fire captain standing right there.
years ago, another customer had me install fire escape push bars on the doors to the roof, locking them so no one could gain access from the outside but allowing anyone to leave via that door to the roof (and set off alarms). i did not check the code when we did this and i am not sure if the board member in that building had.
none of what i have said here should suggest i know anything about the code.
Lurker | 3 years and 4 months ago
Not sure where you buy it, @cate but I had removed a fixed steal ladder that led to my roof from within a closet, and partly hidden behind a hinged door. I put in a telescoping metal ladder and then found it took up too much space and reinstalled the steel ladder. I feel like they’re standardized.
helen40
in General Discussion 3 years and 4 months ago
We also keep a padlock with a key in the lock in the hasp of our Bilco roof hatch. We can get out if we need to. Fixed steel ladder leads to the hatch. If a firefighter wants to get access to your house from the roof, they might try the hatch, but most likely will use an axe.
brokelin | 3 years and 4 months ago
As a practical matter, I would suggest that you use a U-shaped piece of hardened metal – strong like those in locks – rather than an unlocked combination lock – if by combination lock you mean the kind of lock that one needs to know the code to open.
If someone were to accidentally close and lock that lock.- a child, or a roof worker or a tenant going up to the roof being absent-minded and automatically locking it when coming back in, etc. – then no one would be able to get out in a fire. That is a dangerous situation. A piece of metal that can be easily slipped out and can’t accidentally be locked would seem to be a safer option to me.
I would suggest the same thing re: the padlock with key inside it someone used above – it that key were to somehow fall out of the lock, or if someone were to remove the key, so that it was not there when someone needed to get out in a fire, that would also be a dangerous situation, to me, though it may work fine for some as it does for the above person.
Not commenting on whether firemen are supposed to be able to get in from the outside in a four-unit building – don’t know the rules on that. I just know people are more concerned with keeping people from breaking in through roof hatches, and I would certainly feel safer with it remained fastened from the inside if I were you or your tenant.
When we replaced the roof hatch in our four unit coop when putting on a new roof, we installed the kind that opens from the inside with a handle type lock – it can be opened easily from the inside using the handle, but cannot be opened from the outside, and I don’t remember having any discussion with the roofer I hired who provided and installed the new hatch of any hatches with a feature allowing firemen to open it from the outside, so I don’t think that exists. I would think if it were illegal to have hatches locked from outside access that the roofers would have let us know that, though maybe not. We replaced the old one, which had been secured from the inside using a u-shaped metal piece, not a lock.
NeoGrec | 3 years and 4 months ago
I completely unaware of any requirement to allow firemen to enter via the hatch from outside. But I can say for sure they will use their axes, as bored points out, in a heartbeat or less. When they rang our bell (no fire in our house — just the neighbor’s smokey chimney), in the 20s it took me to answer, they had already raised their axes to destroy our front doors. They don’t mess around.
NewOwner | 3 years and 4 months ago
Jeez, NeoGrec – picturing that now. Thanks everyone for your reassurance. I will continue to keep the unlocked lock to keep the hatch handle down – good to know I’m not unduly putting people’s safety at risk.
cate | 3 years and 4 months ago
Thanks for all this good info. Does anyone know where to procure and who would install a fixed metal ladder? (Ours is the original 19th c wood ladder — quaint but terrifying, and its movement has destroyed the plaster where its head meets the party wall in the attic.) We asked our roofers and they shrugged so apparently roofers don’t install these. I suppose any contractor as part of a much bigger renovation but apart from that.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 3 years and 4 months ago
Maybe an ironworks could make a metal ladder
chemosphere | 3 years and 4 months ago
On mine we put in heavy duty hook and eyes.