Roof deck systems - advice appreciated

MC33+ states they have laborers lined up to apply manufactured pedestal & tile systems which they will provide after exploring the various suppliers.

I believe it should be twice noted that as the Imiller comment stated, roof supports for their roof deck mounts were created by the sistering in of steel members to their pre-existing wood roof joists under their roof to carry the weight-load on their roof.

Homeowners will add heavy soaked-earth filled planter containers and furniture units as mentioned by janedrew. Homeowners will exceed the code compliant 100 psf live- load.

The DOB, having made it difficult to install roof decks and favoring “Decks up on I-Beams” reflects logical reasoning–to own a liability risk free, fire proof SAFE roof deck environment for recreational purposes…most especially during these times.

patrickburnsjr

in General Discussion 4 years and 10 months ago

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mc33433 | 4 years and 10 months ago

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We have a single family three story home and recently resealed/ waterproofed the roof using the parapro roof membrane system. We are now researching options to install a roof deck on top of this, and we’re exploring different systems, leaning moreso towards lighter weight options versus stone/ pavers. We came across the bison elevated deck/ pedestal system which seems very attractive in the ease of install and adjustability to account for the roof slope. Looks like the options include Ipe wood as well. It seems like there are a few other systems like this out there as well, but bison seems to be the prominent one I keep seeing pop up.

Any experience in installing a system like this? Any advice? We have labor lined up, so we are really just looking for advice on systems and distributors for the materials…

Guest User | 4 years and 10 months ago

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Bison is a popular choice. For combustible materials like ipe, there is square footage restriction. With pavers, planters, furniture etc you need to make sure your roof can support the weight of everything.

jimhillra | 4 years and 10 months ago

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Keep in mind that contrary to popular belief, Ipe is considered combustible, and therefore limited to 20% of the roof area. Trex, or other composites, is also combustible.
Noncombustible options include porcelain, concrete, stone, metal, etc.. We’ve been using 24″ square porcelain pavers on pedestals on our projects, from several different manufacturers, and the results have been terrific.

mc33433 | 4 years and 10 months ago

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Thanks for the feedback – it’s interesting to me that Ipe is considered combustible but I do see that now when doing more research. Was it previously considered noncombustible at one point? What I liked about Ipe was durability and look but also that it doesn’t get hot in the sun! Great point on the square footage restrictions. We will definitely keep that in mind so we don’t fall out of compliance with code. My biggest concern with the noncombustible options was weight.

Guest User | 4 years and 10 months ago

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Wood is combustible so I can’t see them classifying it as non combustible. However there may have been looser restrictions on the max square footage allowed in the past. Re weight I believe there are light pavers and I think one is more at risk with heavy planters etc. I worry about slipping and falling on pavers vs. wood.

jimhillra | 4 years and 10 months ago

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For a short while, Ipe was allowed. It has a very high flash point because of the oil and density, so it’s very fire resistant. However, it was determined that if a fire gets hot enough, Ipe will burn and increase the heat of the fire.

As for weight and texture, porcelain pavers come in 3/4″ and 1″ thick, so they’re not that heavy. And even if they weigh as much as 60 lbs for a 24″ x 24″ tile, that’s only 15 lbs per foot, which isn’t bad when you consider a modern roof is designed for 100 if intended for occupancy. They also have honed and other rough surfaces so they don’t get too slippery, not nearly as slippery as a mildewy or mossy wood paver.

kassie319 | 4 years and 10 months ago

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Some porcelain manufacturers recommend no more that 3″ from bottom of tile to roof. I’ve never seen one fail but I have seen a 2″ ballast paver break and it wasn’t pretty. On a recent install we infilled with rigid insulation when the drop was greater than 3″.
Make sure you protect your new membrane at each pedestal.
Regarding Ipe – in the mid 2000’s I (vaguely) recall a letter from a plan examiner referring to a testing company in Minnesota who had run tests on Ipe. I’m sure we submitted it with applications a couple of times and got approval for use on roofs.

brooklyndempsey | 4 years and 10 months ago

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We have Ipe pavers on part of our roof deck, and stone pavers on another part, all on pedestal mounts. Both are nice materials, but different.
The stone pavers get quite hot in the sun, and are very heavy to lift up on the rare occasions you need to get under them as a homeowner (setting aside the contractor’s work). On the other hand, the surface is highly durable and hasn’t aged noticeably in 5 years–zero maintenance.
The Ipe is much cooler to walk on. It does age and change color in the sun and weather (ours is unfinished), not undesirable but the look will evolve so expect that if you use it. Two of the tiles have had boards significantly crack/splinter as they have aged and we’ve replaced them. Since Ipe is a lot lighter than stone I don’t see this as a deal breaker, but expect some upkeep over the years.

mc33433 | 4 years and 10 months ago

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lmmiller, what pedestal mount system did you use? Does it account for slope of roof? I’m surprised to hear the Ipe has some damage already but then again it is wood…

I’m wondering for those familiar with the bison system, do you need to buy the tiles from them (Ipe or otherwise) or would standard 2 x 2 tiles work with this system? We got some quotes and due to their shipping from the west the freight cost makes the quote less competitive than some of our local sources, so now we’re wondering if it’s possible to just procure the system…

This thread has been very informative so I thank everyone for their input.

patrickburnsjr | 4 years and 10 months ago

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Ipe Hardwood is a Universal Class-A Fire Proof catagory, the same classification as concrete & steel but NYC DOB remains “on the fence” about IPE, labeling it ‘combustible’.

Bottom line is NYC DOB has made it difficult to install roof decks due to the history of non-code-compliant coverages resulting in many building fires.

DOB favors taking the weight off the roof directly by installing decks suspended on steel I-Beams. I-Beams are carried by the roof parapet load-bearing walls.

brooklyndempsey | 4 years and 10 months ago

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mc33433, we used DeckWise pedestal mounts, like these https://www.advantagelumber.com/pdf/pedestals/altitudes-pedestal-details-2017.pdf
I imagine they are similar to the Bison. They can adjust for 5% of slope, in some parts of the roof they had to use wood and rubber shims to deal with areas that had greater slopes (depending on the roof, at the edges the slope may be extreme–which they are in parts of our roof).
Our Ipe tiles have a slot cut in the corners, which allows them to be locked to this particular brand of pedestal, but that is optional (ours are locked in). Otherwise they are just squares, and you adjust for the tile size by where you put the pedestals.
While Ipe is lighter than stone, it is still a very dense wood and it isn’t surprising that shipping would add up from across the country.
To the DOB comment–our mounts rest on the roof surface (Kemper), but we did have to sister the roof joists with steel to reinforce for the required load rating. The re are design reasons we did it this way–I-Beams above the surface would have been simpler and probably cheaper to meet code. You’ll also need to consider the railings and how they are attached.