Repointing recs for limestone brick? And what kind of mortar to use?

We need to repoint the top 1/3 of our facade (see photo). The bricks are whitish in color, not regular bricks. Cornice also needs to be repainted. Anyone have any recommendations for a company to handle this?

I spoke with a guy and he recommended “concrete glue with lime machinery cement with 00 fine sands”… But upon doing some online research it seems I should be using a lime based mortar. It feels like many who do work on townhouses use modern portland cement type products even though they are not recommended for historic buildings. We used Limeworks mortar for our rear facade with a different contractor and it has held up well so far. [IMG_1758](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:ef9m:img_1758.jpeg.jpg)

Guest User | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Guest User | 2 years and 3 months ago

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@dork @homeinspector @cate Thank you guys so much for your advice! You are convincing me that you shouldn’t mess around with the front facade of a historic house. I will try to find someone who is higher up on the food chain, so to speak…

dorkofwindsor | 2 years and 3 months ago

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squibsie, from what i understand there is a big difference between what you used on the back and the ubiquitous “type n lime mortar” that i believe your contractor was trying to quote you. (the cement glue was a red flag though, its a hack, not needed and i have no idea what it does to the chemistry). the type n lime mortar works more like masonry cement everyone is used to working with, and the non cementitious lime has a different feel without the portland acting as a faster drying adhesive. might be the reason for your distaste of the previous job…. might not be either, i see lots of sloppy jobs with the type n also.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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The short answer is you will probably end up with the same class of people who your gc brought in to work on the back of the house.

What you are not realizing is that the use of the lime mortar is not the reason they will cost more. They will cost more because as they rose higher on the food chain, their skillset became greater, they produce a cleaner job and somewhere along the way, they found out about lime mortar and added it to their repertoire. Those people now charge enough that they are able to earn a living wage (they are still not getting rich) . With certain things in life you want people who are at the top of their game doing the job; the person flying the plane you are on, your tax accountant, open heart surgeon, the person working on the facade of your house. The people using type n are beginners. You want a specialist. Your gc took that chance on the back of the house and look where that went.

Guest User | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Thanks for the advice, y’all. What about the idea of me buying the lime mortar for the contractor to use? Any reason why that would be a bad idea? Is working with lime mortar different than the regular mortar the cheaper guys use?

In the meantime I am working on getting quotes from more reputable companies facade recommended on here, but I worry that they will be many times more expensive.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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I did some work on a pre 1880 wall on long island in the 1980’s with type N (before i knew better). A couple of years ago, a contractor on here said using type N was ok. Soon after I stopped and checked that wall out and all is holding well and there is no apparant damage to the brick. The bricks themselves had been imported from England and did appear softer than our modern bricks. That said, i cannot see how it will be possible for op to lighten type n to a limestone color – so they will be following what dork says anyway.

cate | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Here’s a handy guide we wrote to maintaining historic brick in Brooklyn. Architect quoted recommends at the very least using weak Type N mortar for old brick. There’s also a source for matching historic brick if needed. BTW a pale brick building is likely to be circa 1900 so at least not as crumbly as, say, a pre-Civil War brick house. https://www.brownstoner.com/interiors-renovation/brooklyn-brick-historic-how-to-repair-repointing-soft-mortar-spalling-painting-maintenance-tips/

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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what i meant above was, do not ever do this: do not ever call a contractor and ask “do you work with (lime mortar, marine epoxy, dye stains, etc. etc)?”. if they need the work, they will say “yes” and pray. call them and engage them in conversation.

justinromeu26 | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Take what dork is saying and open the initial phone call to a contractor with something about lime mortar. Ask him if he knows where to get it and if he’s heard of say amrlabs. If he has not heard of amr but understands what you are talking about, he might be able to offer alternatives. If he has not a clue what you are talking about, end the conversation.

I have just shown you how professionals weed out people who are not who they say they are before they even meet in person. Know that if people have been doing this for any length of time and have been ordering dyed lime from specialty suppliers and have been talking about what i would consider the highest level of the masonry restoration trade for any length of time with people on the phone, they will be able to communicate even if english is not their first language. If they are not native speakers of english, as they rise to the highest level of craftsmanship, their language skills will rise with them. Those people you are talking to who want to use regular mortar, they have not been doing this long or are content at the level they are at.

Can someone explain to me what “concrete glue” is? It sounds like something we should run from.

dorkofwindsor | 2 years and 3 months ago

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i would get the mortar matched and find someone who knows how to use lime mortar. will probably weed out the herd for you.

http://mortarlab.com/AMRLabs/lime-mortar.html

Guest User | 2 years and 3 months ago

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The mortar worked out fine, but I didn’t like the quality of work by the mason – too sloppy. It was my GC who hired the mason… this time I’m looking for someone who specializes in exterior work.

colonialrevival | 2 years and 3 months ago

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If your previous guy did a great job with historic lime mortar, why not bring him back for the new gig?

Guest User | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Yes, I have seen that a while ago, thanks.

Guest User | 2 years and 3 months ago

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Have you seen this guide?
https://www.nyc.gov/assets/lpc/downloads/pdf/LPCPermitGuidebook_Chapter1_Restoration.pdf

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