Recommendations needed for roof snow & frozen gutter removal

At our townhouse in Astoria, after last weekend’s heavy snowstorm and ongoing deep freeze, we started getting water leaking into a second-floor room and also through the ceiling on the floor below. There’s no plumbing in that area, and someone suggested the likely issue is ice buildup or a frozen gutter/downspout causing snowmelt from the roof to back up and enter through the exterior.

Does anyone have recommendations for reliable companies that can clear snow from the roof and safely clear frozen or blocked gutters/downspouts? I’m looking to address the exterior cause first. Thanks in advance.

samtsegaye

in General Discussion 1 month ago

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cate | 1 month ago

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Thanks, Steve. Now I understand the difference between the two gutters. Yesterday I went into the backyard and saw that our gutter and downspout are frozen. There’s a drip coming from where our gutter and our neighbor’s gutter meet. But, surprisingly, at least so far, we don’t have any leaks inside. I wonder why, and if there’s anything we can and should do to make sure we don’t have any in the future. (We used to have leaks in heavy storms but not so far since our neighbor got a new roof, gutter, and downspout.)

samtsegaye | 1 month ago

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A friend who helps us with some handy work is a super at a nearby apartment building and he came by with one of his guys to get the snow. He used some sort of torch to melt the some of the ice. Next call when weather stabilizes a bit will be to Steve…

brandonlilly | 1 month ago

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I live in Brooklyn and am experiencing the same issue. Who did you have come and shovel the roof?

BobMarvin | 1 month ago

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The main problem I had with the original gutters that sat directly on the wall is that they leaked and that the water damaged the brick. When I had flange type gutters installed they had to replace a couple of rows of bricks and the wooden roof deck underneath the gutter.

Brownstone Home Inspection | 1 month ago

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samtsegaye, thank you for reading what i wrote. btw, a neighbor’s gutter never had sun hit it and he had a deicing cable in it. most of the time, the issue starts with a leaf clog. but snow or ice can do it as well.

cate. google “box gutters with flange”. a place in chicago pops up.

the traditional big box store slope roof k gutters are usually not a problem unless the other lip of the gutter is higher than the upper wall of the house, allowing water to rise and enter the house before it would otherwise go over the edge of the gutter. Unfortunately, mine is high enough that when it clogs, water finds its way into the house.

bob asked why don’t i switch mine: generally it is not a problem. and i do not want to rip up the edge of my roof to install this-

BobMarvin | 1 month ago

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Cate,
I had leaks with that type of gutter when a lot if ice built up about 10 years ago. Installing a flange type gutter solved the problem. Note that the problem was cUsed by what may have been the original copper gutter, so it didn’t cause leaks for >100 years.

cate | 1 month ago

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We have miraculously not had a leak so far this winter, but a roofer told us we have a gutter for a peaked roof when we should have the kind for a flat roof. I don’t know the difference, but he told us to keep an eye on it. Does having the wrong kind of gutter make leaks in freezing weather more likely?

samtsegaye | 1 month ago

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Apologies, Steve. Realized you had signed off with your name after i posted my reply calling you by your company name….

samtsegaye | 1 month ago

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All: Thank you! Had someone come and implement a temporary fix by shoveling the snow from the roof. The gutter was completely frozen and @Brownstone Home Inspection lays out seems to be the exact issue. For now, we are set but I do need to find a long term solution. One recommendation was to consider a gutter or roof deicing cable. Still need to do some research. But, @Brownstone Home Inspection, I will call you so we can discuss having you come out when this weather lets up and help us out with an inspection and share your thoughts. Thank you again! I wish I knew how to share some pictures on here….

BobMarvin | 1 month ago

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OK Steve. you z”rattled my cage” so I’m responding again, even though I haven’t much to add beyond my first response.
1. A flange type gutter stopped the leaks I had about 10 years ago. The original gutters in my row all sat directly on the brick parapet. In addition to using a flange type gutter the roofer replaced damaged brick and a rotted portion of the roof deck.
2. Steve’s recent inspection of my roof was very thorough and he recommended an excellent roofer who did maintenance according to his recommendations. I’ve had no leaks following the last snowstorm.

Brownstone Home Inspection | 1 month ago

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@xcxh,

for the water to come in where the OP describes and hit the top of the window frame and leak down and through the frame (or down through the brick cavity to the window frame a floor below) the water has to travel over the gutter and come in under the membrane UNLESS there is a leak in the membrane. if there was a leak in the membrane, which can occur, the op would have had leaks during usual rain events. the kind of leak OP describes is very specific and it only happens when the gutter is clogged (with leaves or snow).

leaks can occur anywhere in the membrane. When they do occur in the membrane, they are often due to open seams. what happens with snow is, the snow melts, refreezes into ice, creating a dam, and then water from melting snow backs upwards on the slope and enters the open seam which otherwise might not have leaked (due to the slope). so what you describe xcxh can occur but less likely near the edge and into the wall.

A problem with roof leaks on these old houses is, there is often another layer of roof membrane under the top one and water leaks in and travels around. Sometimes, it becomes trapped and forms a blister. But most often it moves elsewhere and causes problems far away from the original entry point.

and with cocklofts between the ceiling on the top floor and the roof, this adds a little more confusion to the problem.

If you go right above a leak and remove snow and that works, you hit the jackpot. i would be careful though near the edge of the roof with the potential for there to be ice below the snow.

xchx | 1 month ago

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Is it a flat roof? Safe to go out there? I had a similar problem and I just shoveled off the area right above the leak and it stopped.

Brownstone Home Inspection | 1 month ago

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I do roof inspections and leak investigations. i know exactly what is happening on your roof because it is happening on mine, right now. it has backed off a little in the past 36 hours, but after the first day of this nonsense, it was dripping so loud inside my bedroom that it woke me.

OK, this is what i hope will happen if i tell you this: i hope if i tell you the problem and you decide to go fix it yourself or have someone you know do it, that others will read this here and think, “hell, i am not climbing up there to investigate this and then try to explain it to some “roofer”, i will call steve and pay him to identify the problem and prepare a report so i can fix it myself or hand the report to a roofer”. Years ago I used to explain stuff on here to people (stuff i did for a living) and i found that for every person i taught or tried to teach to do something themselves on here, there were five people who wanted nothing to do with tools and getting dirty and they called me to address the problems. i am hoping that works a little that way here and people call me to do an inspection on their roofs and have me identify the issues and explain to them how they can fix them (flat roofs are easy to maintaint and i can show you how to maintain them better than some of the people who claim to be “roofers” we have running around this city now).

so this is what happens: the roof comes unadhered from the drip edge or top of the wall or under the sheathing. then the gutter clogs and the water rises up in the gutter. that is usually when the problem occurs.

my flat roof has a regular pitched roof gutter on it that you buy at big box stores. it is not the correct gutter (and many are not). flat roofs need a gutter with a flange on them that extends under the roof by about 6″ and that gets put down and then the roof membrane sealed to it. the flange acts as a bonding surface for the membrane and also as an ice shield and closes the gap between the membrane and sheathing.

ideally, the gutter is lower than the edge of the roof, that way, if the gutter clogs, the water overflows the gutter first and goes down behind the house. if rear edge of the gutter is angled up, and the roof membrane is not sealed, the water flows toward and over the wall to the house. I used to install regular gutters when i was a kid in the ‘burbs (teenager working for a contractor) and we were able to pitch the back edge up or down depending on how we drive the spikes. some gutters have straps and if the are pulled tight, that is a problem.

i just admitted that i have the same problem in my house. for the past several years now, i have inspected roofs in this city and lectured people (some of who will read this here) as to what can happen if you do not clean your gutters of leaves every fall. here i am, i did NOT inspect my roof and clean the gutter of leaves this past fall. when we first had this problem just after we moved in here in 2006, i not only realized i had to clean the gutter but i fixed the leak by running roof mesh and flashing cement along the back edge of the roof, where the seam is between the membrane and the wall/sheathing and the gutter. this had worked for years, but as with everything else on roofs, they need annual or semi annual maintenance. and we still have to clean our gutters. (by the way, some people have a situation where the snow melts and freezes again and that clogs the getter).

I have been asked to inspect several issues on roofs since this past snow fall and i refuse to go out on them now. if you want to learn about your roof and what kind of maintenance it needs and want this issue explained to you on your roof, give me a call. the inspection will not break the bank.

You will find reviews of my services all over this forum. Bob Marvin who wrote the other reply here had me inspect his roof and he wrote a review of my service here. i suppose if i rattle his cage a little, i can get him to comment here-

Steve
Brownstone Home Inspection LLC
brownstonehomeinspection.com

BobMarvin | 1 month ago

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I don’t have a solution for your immediate problem but after the weather thaws out you might consider replacing your gutter with a flange type that doesn’t sit directly on the brick parapet.