Price Friendly Rennovations Possible ?

Hello Everyone !

I’m new to the world of brownstone renovating.
Any/all advice will be welcome.
I’ve been doing research the past few weeks to get an idea of how much we will need to shell out to get some work done. I’ve heard roughly 100k/floor. I’ve also heard it can range anywhere from 300/sq. ft all the way up to 1,000 sq. ft.
A third architect told me not to even think about it unless I had 1mm to throw at the project.

Has anyone been able to tackle a semi-gut reno with prices that are more realistic?
At this rate I’m assuming everyone in NYC has 1 million laying around to add to home repairs ?

mgalstyan

in General Discussion 9 years and 9 months ago

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deancollins | 9 years and 9 months ago

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We used

Dan Catalfumo, VP
Professional Construction Enterprises Inc.
300 W. Service Rd., Suite 2-A
Staten Island, NY 10314
profconstr@aol.com

For our upstairs bathroom and found him relatively reasonable………though I still think it should be cheaper in NYC than it is……

mgalstyan | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Thank you all again – this thread has been EXTREMELY informative, I have put so many of your ideas to use

slopefarm | 9 years and 9 months ago

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PS. All my advice is, of course, in the nature of “do as I say, not as I did.” Live and learn.

slopefarm | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Good advice from lurker. Also, when interviewing GCs, find out how much the GC (or an experienced and qualified foreman, if the GC is a large operation with multiple jobs) will be present at the site each day. You want the work supervised well, not just looked over once a day.

Lurker | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Even if you skip the alarmist million dollar reno club—you can easily renovate for a fraction of that–the cost of doing work that is quality, on time, and legal, gets high pretty fast if you’re actually gutting anything old in NYC. Jobs often end up being very large chunks of cash–new plumbing for a gutted house can easily be 25, electric 20 or so, a new HVAC system can easily hit 20k, paying architects for plans, then getting permits and special inspections can easily go 15- 25. So without lifting a hammer or buying a doorknob or fixture or paint you’re around 100k already.

A suggestion, whoever you use, is to download the free DCA (dept of consumer affairs) contract and fill it out with your GC, whom you should confirm is fully licensed by DCA. If things hit the fan you can go after them via the DCA for free. It worked out for us–the fear of the DCA made our GC settle before they yanked his license. Get prices in writing (at least a text or email) before change orders and by hook or crook have a weekly list of work to be accomplished and base payments on hitting those marks. A lot of trades we dealt with hate email, prefer text and conversation, and that’s nice but is a quick way to have things get confused. A paper trail is your friend.

Anecdotal observation: tradespeople who carry and use notebooks/folders are accountable, ones who “remember” everything aren’t (my opinion).

agdipierro

in General Discussion 9 years and 9 months ago

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Competitive bidding with good contract documents helps. Then follow up with an AIA Owner-Contractor Agreement. Have a retainage of 10%. Use AIA payment requisitions approved by the architect.

slopefarm | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Another reason to use an architect who is independent of the contractor. Architect is in a better position to set progress payment schedule and let you know when progress is achieved and payment should be made.

cmoaefnkdswts | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Great advise here! Another thing I would like to add is to be careful about the payment schedule especially with the cheaper contractors I’ve ran into many clients with contractors that just disappear after a certain amount of money is paid . Basically they want too much money upfront and then have no motivation to complete the job.

mgalstyan | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Yes I would love to swap notes and keep in touch !
I’m taking some advice and reaching out to some neighbors today (advice received on this wonderful thread)

mhquinones | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Hi D.Stephens

I was the last one to ask this question, and received an extremely wide gamut of responses, which were really helpful. Cate is the most accurate in that depending on the scope of work, your price will vary.

As a point of reference, due to the responses I received, and personal preference, I changed the scope of work that I was planning, and started with renovations on my two rental units, which included new kitchens and bathrooms, which due to upgrades, required some new plumbing, and electrical work. The price of <80k all in came in well under what most users were quoting. Do definitely keep a buffer though because when you open the walls, I can guarantee that issues will pop up. For reference due to some additional work I requested + some issues that popped up behind the walls, I had labor overruns of around 15%. In the next two months, I am planning to start the process of a much more complete renovation that involves an extension, moving bat hrooms, kitchens etc. that will be more comparable to your build. If you want, we can keep in touch, and compare notes. Best of luck with your renovations.

mgalstyan | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Lisa – may I ask what happened after the reno? Are you pleased / not pleased with the work ?

robertvar | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Definitely ask your neighbors. In our neighborhood there is a contractor who does a lot of work. We didn’t know that when we renovated but later used him. He isn’t the least expensive but he does solid work and if he didn’t everyone in the neighborhood would know. WE did a smiliair renovation for about 150K — it was a “bargain” but we are slowly paying for all the cut corners.

mgalstyan | 9 years and 9 months ago

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40% is a HUGE amount, I had no idea that permits etc would take up such a huge chunk of the budget and delay the process so much

resident2 | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Like every other profession in this City it depends greatly on where is the house and how much marketing does that “professional” put into attracting clients? A tooth extraction can be anywhere from $200.00 to almost $1,000 in Brooklyn these days…. I know, I just priced it. And where and how long has that professional been in business. If you mention Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope etc., the price will go up or some will just say they are too busy (give you a ridiculously high price to get rid of you.) You are always better off with a contractor that works in the immediate area. IE downtown Brooklyn as apposed to Staten Island or Westchester for example.
If you are not changing the use of the house; do you really need to file it? Always use licensed electricians and plumbers, but if you are not changing its use or downsizing it, then it will be at least 40% less not to file it. But again this will depend on where you are, some neighborhoods they will immediately call 311 so you will be playing cat and mouse with inspectors trying to get in etc.
Architects and Brokers from my experience are typically the worst people to get construction estimates from, if you find a Broker that has actually done a few rehabs… but most have not.
You need to spend some time to find a good local craftsman contractor who does work to the standard and style that you are looking for. I know that is easier said than done. especially these days when all the neighborhoods have been over run with get rich quick contractors and architects. The ones I am speaking of will barely have a web site and no on-line ads etc. Will not show up on Angies list or any of those other on line referral sites, because they like to know where their clients came from. It will be word of mouth referrals…. the old fashioned way.
Go to neighborhood House tours, there will be a few more in the fall before the season is finished, House Tours are good not just to look at the insides of neighborhoods, but also to see the renovations up close and personal and ask the owners about their contractors etc.

chemosphere | 9 years and 9 months ago

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There are ways to do this and keep the cost down.
Consider leaving the parlor floor stiffening wall but instead making a cutout, or even several cutouts. This opens up the room but doesn’t really require structural changes. It’s done very often to Brooklyn row house galley kitchens.
There are other variables which will have an impact on how much you end up spending. Neighbors! Are they the types who call 311 constantly? or will they leave you alone? You can’t replace a shower curtain in Brooklyn Heights without a neighbor calling 311. Not so in East Flatbush. You could move a kitchen up two floors and nobody would notice, if you are on their good side.
We spent about 20k per “wet room” for simple but elegant gut renovations. All plumbing was from scratch except the main waste stack was left in place. Didn’t mess around with stupidity like high end tile. Rely on creativity rather than name brands.

mgalstyan | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Agreed.
Im all for investing in the home but so many places were saying 1mm without even seeing the property

Yes we are currently in the home, trying to sell our house upstate so we try not to be in it too much.

I’m sure that adds to the list of issues !

Solomonsmines33 | 9 years and 9 months ago

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In the estimates I have gotten, and projects I have been involved with $100k per floor should be sufficient including updating plumbing and electric, and making some changes to the layout as long as there are no major structural changes or issues, and as long as your finish choices are pretty thrifty. Moving the kitchen shouldn’t be a huge deal if you are already replacing the plumbing stack. But if you are suddenly adding multiple new stacks that would increase the cost/overall complexity. If you have to change the CofO that is another bag of worms. But in general, I get frustrated with people that assume that every renovation will cost $1M.

cmu | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Here’s what I’m getting a bid on: demo a bath & replace with IKEA kitchen, new bath on other side, so minimum plumbing changes, rebuild part of existing stairs which had been removed (using prefab steel stringers & wood treads bought from manuf.), demo old kitchen, fix up a basement room ceiling & walls so can be used as an office, for around 60-70k. I figure about 200 sq ft are affected, so that’s $35/ft. I design and spec out a lot of stuff myself (the stair cost is <1/2 of bids I got from stair people, this will be installed by my contractor), use lower cost helpers for painting & cleanup, etc. These estimates of a million are for those with that kind of money who don't want (perhaps rightly) to be bothered to do hands-on supervision & some work.

CarmenR | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Do you live in this brownstone currently?