Plans and reality

Hey all. So there’s a construction project going on next door to my property that’s been causing all sorts of trouble. They’ve caught a couple of major stop work orders, and they’ve been treating me and the folks on the other side pretty badly.

But here’s my issue. As part of my effort to protect my investment, I went down the DoB and got copies of the plans, and I’ve also tracked on the DoB website what they’ve got on file. They’ve added a story beyond what their plans indicate (they claim its some sort of structure to house climate equipment, but it ain’t on the plans) and they’re planning on expanding the first floor about 20 feet back. Again, not in the drawings. During their last shut down, the DoB was there and presumably saw the extra story, but now these guys are back in action and they haven’t taken anything down.

Am I missing something here? Can you build stuff that’s not in plans? These guys have cut all sorts of corners already, and they’re from a community that often seems to have great sway with the Dob, so I’m scratching my head.

burpgun

in General Discussion 7 years and 3 months ago

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raisagur | 6 years and 6 months ago

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Hi Slopefarm I totally get your concern. My name is Adam Courtney and I run the firm. We are always very much on top of our projects but I can certainly understand your concern. I just happened across these comments in the forum today so I thought I’d reach out.

You are probably right in that we might be too late in the game to help them, but I’m guessing they are not the only people who are having those issues (and given what we do and who our clients are, I’m actually quite certain of that fact) so I posted our info there in case anyone else found it and might need the help. As for similar wording? Well, similar problems and I was introducing our company.

And if you gave any concerns yourself or need info about us or a project going up next door to you please feel free to reach out!

slopefarm | 6 years and 6 months ago

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I see NeighborAdvisors has popped in to respond to two very stale threads and posted a comment with identical wording. I hope they are not so slow in responding to anyone who might hire them, but it doesn’t augur well.

raisagur | 6 years and 6 months ago

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Unfortunately once construction has started your options (beyond calls to 311) may be limited, but one question would be wether or not your neighbor had you sign an “Access Agreement”? Basically permission from you to access your property when needed for things like vibration monitoring, roof protection, scaffolding etc. The access agreement can give you a loot of leverage over the kinds of problems that come from a new building going up next door.

Sounds like things have already started going wrong for you, so even if it’s too late for us to help with the access agreement, we might be able to at least give you some good advice. About 2 years ago we started a firm that helps people specifically deal with the challenges of a neighbor building next door. The access agreement we negotiate requires the builder to have everything from a site safety plan to the proper insurance in case of any problems.

Most importantly, the fees (when we can help) are always paid by the developer so it doesn’t cost our clients anything. And even if it turns out to be too late for us to help , I am always happy to give you some advice and information.

If anyone has any questions, please feel to reach out here or take a look at our website, http://www.neighboradvisors.com.

brooklyngirl | 7 years and 2 months ago

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When you file DOB complaints, do it online and be very specific. If your complaint is that they’re building outside the scope of their approved plans, then select that specific complaint from the drop down box. If it’s not available, then call 311, but make sure the operator takes down your info word for word. From my own experience, the DOB inspector will only come to inspect the specific nature of the complaint, so if you haven’t specified it, they won’t look for it, no matter how obvious.

burpgun | 7 years and 2 months ago

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Just to complete the circle here: Next door’s now shut down in part for “non conforming” activity. The amazing thing is this is there second stop work order for work that wasn’t in the plans in the space of less than six months. At one point does the DoB really lower the boom on these guys? I still can’t figure out the end game outside of the fact that they believe they have some sort of Jedi architect/expediter that can get this stuff approved after the fact. The stuff they’re doing isn’t a minor divergence from the filed plans. It’s an extra floor and a major rear extension.

greenworks | 7 years and 3 months ago

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You can report online using your own words — https://www1.nyc.gov/apps/311universalintake/form.htm?serviceName=DOB+Construction+in+Progress+Contrary+to+Plan

Or pick from these:

http://www1.nyc.gov/nyc-resources/categories/housing-development/buildings-property/index.page#complaints

burpgun | 7 years and 3 months ago

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I’ve found the hard part of 311 complaints is getting the phone agent to accurately represent the complaint. Sucks when you have unscrupulous and careless folks doing work next door!

Arkady | 7 years and 3 months ago

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Go to your council member & Community Board too. I’m sure you’ve tried these but jic: http://www1.nyc.gov/nyc-resources/service/1270/building-construction-complaint and https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doi/report/recognizing-wrongdoing.page

deva | 7 years and 3 months ago

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I am experiencing a similar issue. I am thinking of getting a construction lawyer and have the people next door compensate me with any damage. Has anyone done that? Do people have constructions lawyers they recommend? Maybe from the same community?

burpgun | 7 years and 3 months ago

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Yeah, I had a contractor pitch me a renovation project like that. Do what you want and keep renewing the permits to delay inspections into infinity. We didn’t go with him. Last Friday my property got pelted with falling bricks. DoB came out and said the site was safe and never spoke with me despite me providing details, so I’m guessing our boys next door have some special pull.

CarmenR | 7 years and 3 months ago

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We have a neighbor who is a contractor and has done extensions on a few houses on the block. All of his work is beyond what the plans state (including his own house.) The “solution” he and his architect seem to offer is simply never getting permits closed and never getting a CoO. His house and one other on the block currently have open permits (his from 10 years ago, the more recent from 3 years ago) and hes currently working on a house that im sure will be the same. All three of them have rental units. So that’s one way to “get around” having a final DOB inspection. The issue will be when they ever try to refi/sell, but I guess the owners either don’t care or don’t understand the implication of not having a CoO.

burpgun | 7 years and 3 months ago

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I have generally assumed the “magical” outcomes come from relationships, a deep understanding of DoB process, and doing what’s necessary, however you wish to define that, to get the pols on their side. It is what it is, but I’ll be amazed if the DoB lets these guys get away with putting an additional story on their building, as well as massive extension, that doesn’t exist in the plans.

slopefarm | 7 years and 3 months ago

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If you think the results at DOB are a little too “magical” you may need to reach out to a local elected as a counterweight. You already know this, but document, photo everything, keep contemporaneous notes. If you are already having damage to your property of any real value or cost, you might have to lawyer up and send a shot across the bow.

burpgun | 7 years and 3 months ago

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Thanks for the guidance, Slopefarm. I am going to make a trip back down to the DoB to see if the post SWO plans have been amended to reflect the extra story and the extension that are not on the approved drawings. These guys have been a nightmare to deal with, damaging our building and trying to bully us into access without a license agreement. It’s been bad enough at points the police have actually been on site. And having hired members of this particular community for building related work years ago, I know they can accomplish seemingly magical outcomes with the DoB over stuff. Not sure how they do it, but my fear is these guys have the same sort of pull and are going to get away with a massive enlargement of their building beyond the drawings that are in the system.

slopefarm | 7 years and 3 months ago

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BG — An architect can answer this with greater certainty, but my sense is your question may turn a bit on what is permitted within the zoning ordinance and building code. There may be some tolerance to build beyond the plans and then file amended “as built” plans, with the risk that the as built plans do not conform to law and might be rejected. Your situation sounds to my lay sensibility like it goes beyond the normal tolerance. I don’t think there is much point in a friendly, neighbor-to-neighbor discussion about removing an entire extra story of mechanicals. It is possible the DOB inspected more narrowly, or it is possible it signed off on the scope. You might check BIS again to see if any amended plans were filed or info on how the SWO was resolved. You could also consider filing 311 complaint on the website (I’ve never tried this but heard you can do this now), rather than the call, so you can provide an exact narrative of what you think is improper. That way, the complaint to DOB will have your narrative, not whatever the 311 operator took down. Be simple , clear and direct in your writing and enumerate the separate harms (building beyond plans, any safety risks to your property etc). Your goal is less to stop them tomorrow and more to make sure the scope of work and the end result is proper, as well as to protect your property.

randolph | 7 years and 3 months ago

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> @burpgun
> Can you build stuff that’s not in plans?

yes, clearly you can. your story is testament to this fact. now whether or not they ultimately get away with it is another story.