NYC 's proposed property tax overhaul

Workisfun. Never, never sell if you can help it. When you own a property you have wealth. You may need to fine tune some aspects of what is going on with the condition of the house but please don’t sell. I live in Clinton Hill and all I see are long time owners getting out for what they think is a lot of money. Truth be told unless you are moving to someplace well outside of NYC you would still need to fully pocket quite a bit of the sale proceeds to stake a new life elsewhere. Owning a home is one of the toughest but greatest privileges you can have. Work it out. I hope you do. Good luck.

BKALLDAY

in General Discussion 5 years and 9 months ago

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nednedx

in General Discussion 5 years and 9 months ago

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I agree with no-premitz. I am acknowledging that this is a complex public policy issue and housing in NYC is ridiculously unaffordable for many of us with ‘normal’ jobs. Having said that, being upper middle class in NYC doesnt get you that far…we are already getting hit by the Federal tax exemption cap..and now this…maybe there is a solution on the upper end of the market but for most homeowners, who have seen their home prices appreciate, this would be a killer. Why do something so broad based vs being more targeted.

hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago

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The policy was set a long time ago to keep people from being forced to sell their home because property values in the area were rising. As homeowners came and went over decades, the 6% failed to keep up with real estate prices. However, 6% over 30 years would be about a 474% increase in assessed value, which would probably put most houses in line with today’s prices. I think a more fair proposal would be to set the cap at an amount that would bring the effective value to market value after 50 years. For example, a formula could be that taxes can increase by (market value – effective value)/(2070-current year). I think that the increase should spread out somewhat proportional to the length of a mortgage. The tax reassessment would not be borne all by one owner over 5 years, just as the benefits were experienced over a long period of time, and really may not have accrued to the current owners at all.

I think we all want a fair and affordable system, and keeping property taxes from skyrocketing has helped families stay in our communities. This was not a system designed to hurt minorities or enrich landlords, this was exactly the opposite, a system designed to keep housing affordable for New Yorkers who aren’t billionaires. To suddenly decide to put a huge number of families underwater on their homes because it might hurt a few rich folks in the process seems reckless. The people who benefit most appear to be those who bought in brand new or gutted low-rise buildings. The type that went up where regular people used to live.

So I think my message to the administration might be this. Don’t make republicans out of the 35% of NYC residents who own their homes. If there’s really an issue, there are fair and reasonable ways to handle it. We are on your side, but no one is going to forget losing their home and why it happened.

nednedx

in General Discussion 5 years and 9 months ago

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@Urbandad, really excellent post! You make very cogent arguments. Is there a more ‘official’ forum where you could share your ideas ?

true | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Well put, @urbandad!

I’m very confused by why things are the way they are and I can’t find simple answers. It feels like I’m piecing together a puzzle.

I have a clarifying question for the thread: could someone simply explains the reason one property is assessed at a higher value than another property with a much higher market value? Is it because homes in Morris Park and Park Slope were roughly the same price but the appreciation rate has been drastically different since the current law was enacted?

I of course like the idea of a simpler, fairer tax system that works for everyone, but my family is very nervous that this new proposal would bluntly drive us out of the city.

yudashasom | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Landlords, homeowners will need to pass the cost along to tenants. Period.

resident2 | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Roll Back the Tax abatement’s on Luxury Developments!

Putnamdenizen | 5 years and 9 months ago

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no-permitz., not all of us have tenants, or enough tenants, to apps the cost along to. I think it quite unlikely that such a drastic shift in tax policy will happen quickly.

nyc_sport | 5 years and 9 months ago

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This is just a money grab, and another effort to extract more taxes from “rich” people (i.e., those living in Manhattan and high cost parts of Brooklyn and Queens). NYC has been living off the insane escalation in property taxes for years. You are delusional if you think that the failure of NYC schools is related in any way to property tax revenues. Property tax revenues have gone from $8.4 billion annually in 2000 to $30 billion last year (more than the gross GDP of 90 nations). I am sure that the schools, and city services generally, have improved four-fold as well over that time. This is not a plan to reallocate property taxes, but to raise them in select areas. And, for whatever it is worth, I fail to see how it is “equitable” or “fair” for someone living in a 300 sq ft condo in Manhattan to pay the same “property” taxes as someone living in a 2500 sq ft house in the outer boroughs just because they both cost the same to purchase.

BKALLDAY | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Developers have fucked over NYC and now the smaller homeowners/landlords are paying for it. I read several articles in the last week or so. here is one – https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nyc-panel-proposes-more-equity-230000413.html

workisfun | 5 years and 9 months ago

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We would have to sell. No question. We have a two family in Crown Heights. We saved for more than 20 years to buy. Then we had major flooding, etc. We have spent our past and future savings on this house. We are by no means well off, even though the market value of our house may indicate otherwise. And if we had to sell, obviously we’d have to leave our entire network of friends, jobs, etc., because where else could we go?

housepoor | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Having looked at my taxes over the years – which have gone up 4 x in 20 years and well above inflation – I noticed that it was not the effective value that was driving the increases, but the actual tax rate rising. There is no cap on the tax rate. The argument that a $3-5 mm Park Slope or Ft. Greene or Carroll Gardens brownstone that is taxed at $8,000 a year is already paying a fair share is 100% self-serving. But whatever change is coming, it will happen over a long time. That is the only way to get consensus.

Augustiner | 5 years and 9 months ago

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‚Market value‘ is the wrong approach. Keep it simple, tax based on SQF, at least that’s not a phantasy value.

Putnamdenizen | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Augustiner – that essentially is what Is being done now. The supposed inequity between a home owner in Clinton Hill and a homeowner in Canarsie is not that the latter is paying more taxes than the former, but that the tax does not recognize the (as yet unrealized) higher increase in equity in Clinton Hill.

Augustiner | 5 years and 9 months ago

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If can’t see that from the document Putnamdenizen. Equity and market value are not SQF.
Sqf is a number that is indisputable and based on a simple fact: how many sqf of class 1 property do you have.

If you base on Market value there is so much room for dispute. Values can seem inflated, skewed and what not. A renovated house is not necessarily worth more than a shell in some areas. Often the recent comps are not representative of the existing housing stock.
Thats also why the BS ‘assessed value‘ exists, it’s an attempt to level out the unfairness of a pure market value approach. And as we see from the report it is still highly unfair.
One thing is clear – I’ll pay less than the 20k I’m paying for a 3 family in Bed Stuy. So I’m basically for any kind of change haha