No C of O, potential C of O change issues from 1 to 2 fam in 4fl. Brownstone
As far as I know, taxes can only go up a few percent a year. When you renovate, the cap will be removed and you’ll be taxed at the current rate. Then you’ll be capped again, but at a higher value. I’ve seen taxes go up 4-5x what they were before an alteration.
yudashasom
in General Discussion 6 years and 10 months ago
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oxalis100
in General Discussion 6 years and 10 months ago
We would appreciate any helpful insight into our situation for the Brownstoner community.
We are looking at purchasing a 4 story landmarked brownstone, in original condition, without any no meaningful renovations over the years, still in original one family configuration, with kitchen in garden level. The house has no C of O, and DOB classification is as a A4-1.
We’d like to renovate and move kitchens/bathrooms, and change the C of O into a two family, with top three floors as triplex (including a garden floor rear room with bathroom) and the remaining space on garden as a one bedroom apartment with both rear and front exits.
We assume that we would need to get a letter of no objection, as well as ALT-1 permits to do work. Would changing the C of O to a two family (like neighboring buildings) trigger the need for sprinklers, and/or other DOB issues? Would we be able to get a waiver given that renovations are planned to be less than 60% of the cost of the home? Want to make sure we are not underestimating the job in front of us.
Thanks in advance!
mozeeatupu | 6 years and 10 months ago
Upsizing is anyways an uphill battle. Don’t simply assume it’ll be allowed.
yudashasom | 6 years and 10 months ago
If you change from a 1 to a 2, the real estate taxes will go through the roof. You will be better off finding a two family.
resident2 | 6 years and 10 months ago
If the building is in a zone that a two family is allowed by today’s zoning. You will still need to gut the whole building to bring the whole structure up to today’s building codes. You are in essence building a new house.
Then once you have completed the work and got your new C of O the Real Estate taxes will be reassessed based on the “New Construction”.
There is a reason that old pre-dated one family houses are cheaper than a house with a 2 or 3 family C of O with older much cheaper assessed Real Estate taxes.
If you want a two family, then buy an existing 2 or 3 family and do minor renovations to make it what you want. Unless of course money is no object and you have plenty of time to wait to be able to move in.
jimhillra | 6 years and 10 months ago
You would NOT need a letter of no objection, but would have to file an Alt 1 for a new C of O.
Changing the C of O doesn’t necessarily trigger sprinklers. It’s the change in use that does. In your case, going from a one to a two family is not a change in use group (1 and 2 fam is different from 3 and up), so you’re not changing the use.
The 60% rule kicks in when there’s no change in use. We’ve done considerable renovations like this which fell under the 60% rule for sprinklers, and were able to avoid sprinklering the house. It all depends upon how extensive the work really is. The 60% is based upon a convoluted formula modifying the Dept of Finance latest assessment, so you may want to look into that first. We’ve got a preformatted spreadsheet which will give the valuation and resulting thresholds in a few seconds.
In addition to the sprinklers, whether or not you file a builders paving plan is dependent upon the budget at 30%.
mcasey | 6 years and 10 months ago
It seems there’s a lot of parts there that need to be addressed, lets stick w/ what’s in your question.
The C of O process is costly – usually more than people estimate, you could probably call a few local architects for some ballpark numbers & work that into your reno budget to know what you’re getting into.
The Landmark is probably you’re biggest issue. Any renovations to those are…. delicate… to say the least. In permits, pricing AND construction.
The percentage rules are what they are – and there’s value engineering that can help with that. If the building is Landmarked, getting the basic amenities & utilities in while keeping within the landmark guidelines may make little jobs jump over those percentage rules.
At the end of the day – if you love it & can afford it – go for it. Coming from a father of 2, there’s no price for happiness.
It’d be great to hear what you learn, and if there’s any further questions I’ll keep an eye on the posts to see if I can offer more insight.
-frank
Smokychimp | 6 years and 10 months ago
Interesting problem. What you’re talking about would add considerable value to the property as this would allow a rental unit paying for your mortgage. There is a slight upcharge in taxes per year, when that eventually would be assessed (the DoB and Dept of Finance are not in lockstep nor do they share records) .
You do not need a letter of no objection. The fact that there is no DoB record on file doesn’t change the application for a C of O. You are right that you would have to establish a new C of O, but that’s fine. As an application for a two family, you are still below the threshhold for all multitenant laws. That means no sprinklers, no mandatory disability access, no required door widths, no required two egresses, all sorts of things that make townhouses a problem with a new tenancy and new C of O.
You would not be able to get a waiver for this for some sort of 60% threshold – you are changing the occupancy of the building. But it doesn’t matter. If all else is normal in the building, you are moving from a one family to a two family, which are code-wise very fl exible categories of housing. You can even use vinyl wiring rather than metallic cable :0
Sounds like a great idea and great investment
oxalis100
in General Discussion 6 years and 10 months ago
Thank you for all the replies, very helpful. Given the thoughts above, is there any way to anticipate the new tax assessment after receipt of the new 2 FAM C of O, or is it all up to the whims/mystical arts of persons at the city finance/DOB departments? Would the assessed value jump to match the actual market value, meaning 80 times what it is now?? Or is there a general range that these go up – double? triple? (Right now annual taxes are about 9-10K.)
Alternatively, If I keep the existing 1 family C of O, can all kitchens, bathrooms, electricals etc. be done under an alt 2? (not adding on to building, though might replace a window with a doorway to the back yard.) Would this also allow me to avoid the “new construction” issues – sprinklers etc. Unless (per smokychimp) I’d be under the multitenant law either way, and sprinklers etc. (I’ve heard different things on this from different folks/architects.)
Thank you for all the feedback. We would love to be able to do this, be set for the next 15-20+ years.
Smokychimp | 6 years and 10 months ago
To clarify my earlier answer, you wouldn’t be under multitenant law unless you subdivided the building into three units. If you really want to get down into the weeds about the difference between an alt1 and alt2 for what you’re describing, feel free to email me for a more complete answer.
cate | 6 years and 10 months ago
Just to sound a note of caution, if memory serves, owner occupants who are renovating and switching from one to two-families have occasionally posted here in recent years saying their DOB reviewer is requiring them to sprinkler and meet new code (e.g. gut) — seeming to indicate that the rules at the DOB are often changing and sometimes applied inconsistently. Re landmarking, it applies to the exterior only, and affects items such as facade, stoop, door, windows, and additions. Because you are in a landmark district, you will have to get a Certificate of No Effect indicating that your interior renovations will not affect the exterior appearance of the building. As far as I know, this is not particularly difficult but will involve showing a staff person at Landmarks your plans. The Certificate of No Effect is different from a Letter of No Objection, which is for when you want to convert the occupancy of an SRO to something else, such as a one or two-family. (Which can be a lengthy and expensive undertaking.) When we bought we went to great lengths to get a house already s et up with the configuration we needed and with all the original kitchens and baths and to work within the existing original and quite open and flexible layout, so we never needed to file anything. But from talking to people over the years, I gather an Alt-2 is no big deal, but sometimes Alt-1s can get delayed and convoluted at the DOB. My two cents, find an architect with plenty of experience with Alt-1 C of O conversions involving the moving of wet rooms in historic houses with a lot of detail you wish to preserve (if that’s the case). If they have a bit of Landmarks experience, that’s helpful also since it will make the process faster. Sounds like an exciting project.
chemosphere | 6 years and 10 months ago
In a housing crisis, the city should make it easier to turn an enormous 1 family house into units more suited for modern living, which can house more people! Many other cities don’t make you jump through so many hoops to do this. They should be encouraging this kind of conversion, not discouraging it!
I can’t imagine the little old ladies in the 1940s had to deal with this expense and hassle when they were converting large numbers of Upper West Side and Park Slope 1 family houses to rooming houses and floor through apartments in multiple family houses.