new under-stoop gate, smart-locks, new locusts

Hi, Happy post-Thanksgiving to everyone.

We’re getting to ready to replace our under-stoop iron gate and would appreciate some feedback on our plan.

The goal is to have a gate that opens and closes easily, that locks automatically when closed, where we can let people in without giving them a key periodically and where we’re not overally dependent on a not totally reliable smart-lock.

We’re going to use Piscopo ironwork. Vinnie’s is cheaper but won’t work with us on different lock options. Vinnie’s insists on using the one lock they always use.

We’re going to use a Baldwin or Marks mortise lock. I’m not clear whether one is really better then the other. Marks is still made on Long Island which is cool. We’re going to re-use the Multi-lock cylinder we already have since it’s keyed to a master-lock system already.

I think we’re going to try and use a solid knob on the outside with a spindle instead of the hollow thru-bolted ones. I’m not sure yet whether this will work.

We’re going to use an August lock with a keypad. We may have to adapt the August lock to the lockse t with a new tail piece. I can have one of these 3D printed.

I’d love to hear any thoughts on why any of this might be a bad idea and/or any different ways of doing the same.

Thanks in advance to anyone who reads this far.

best,

David

arewedoneyet

in General Discussion 1 year and 5 months ago

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justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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Are we done yet. What mike is saying will work. The latch only knob or lever catches and stops the gate from bouncing back. Yale bolt closes. Not really what you wanted but will work. You will have to build the Yale out on something. I used painted and shaped marine plywood once.

mikehouse33 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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Yes I used a Yale smart lock and a typical Schlage or Baldwin lever setup. Here is a photo with only the yale lock because we had to add the passage lever later. The lever helped keep the gate in alignment so the smart lock could work reliably. [35426964-4467-463A-A812-1DF3EC3E4ED8](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:q92v:354269644467463aa8121df3ec3e4ed8.jpeg.jpg)

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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Are we done yet, if you decide you want to use smart locks, ask me. I’ve installed the yale but did not talk about them here because you said you do not want one of the less reliable or bothersome ones.

In so far as what mikehouse suggests “yale smart locks with traditional baldwin….”: i had a job two years ago where i had to invesigate the entire yale line (and the august) and i could not find anything that works specifically with baldwin or marks. Mike may simply be suggesting a yale smart deadbolt in combination any other mortise lock below meaning you will end up with two separate locks. The yale deadbolts do not offer slam style locks which causes issues for you.

You can go with a yale tubular knobset that will slam but you face thickness issues. Also, i know already that you do not want that hideous looking blocky keypad/knob unit on your door. Am i correct?

I do not see too much difference between the yale smart locks and schlage from an installation pov but maybe readding about them can give you insight into performance.

arewedoneyet | 1 year and 5 months ago

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Mikehouse33 which Yale lock did you use?

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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I must be miising something with the yale smart lock and a baldwin mortise.

Arewedoneyet, i am impressed with those parts. Truth is, your concerns are the same as mine and the reason i don’t offer to deal with gates is just what you say about tolerances. Steal is very unforgiving. We can manipulate wood any way we want.

mikehouse33 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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Hi there I’ve just done this on a few houses and the Yale smart lock with traditional Baldwin or other typical mortise works well! Highly recommend piscipo ironworks, just send gaspar the lock and he will get it done!

arewedoneyet | 1 year and 5 months ago

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I was disappointed that no one had commented on the locust until this point.

I am worried about tolerances and making sure that this gate stays well enough aligned to keep the smart lock moving easily. One of the reasons I like the August is that I can easily remove it if it becomes problematic.

With regards to wear on the plastic interface piece on the August lock, I have 3D printed a replacement piece which fits the Marks mortise lock I have currently and it works well. My plan was to eventually make one in metal for the sake of wear. I’ve tested with a few pieces like this:

[IMG_4541](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:apG2:img_4541.jpeg.jpg)

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 1 year and 5 months ago

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JohnHancock: O thought EVERYONE knew of the connection between locksmithing and locusts. 🙂

JohnHancock | 1 year and 5 months ago

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I’m really interested to hear about the locusts…

Putnamdenizen | 1 year and 5 months ago

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If your gate doesn’t close cleanly, the august lock will fight against the mismatch between door and opening. I had one on a big thick door and had two problems: the little plastic piece (part of the interface between the August mechanism and the lock) got worn down and the battery in the August lock ran down very quickly. I ended up deciding that keys just worked better.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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Looks like Schlage might have something that will work with august. B250P626

You would have to check tailpiece.

Also, might have to shim.

Another thing I do not like about gates is they often do not have nice, large and flat and stable or firm surface areas on which to mount tubular or surface mounted locks. So if this has not been done yet, have these gate people make a 2’ tall by 6” wide pair of steel plates on the lock side where the locks can go. Either a mortise can be inset or a tubular bored. That steel must be firm or it is impossible to tighten up a tubular lock.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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Ok, i just took a look at the august line of products and they have a unit that goes in the back of those Yale locks. Those brass colored horseshoe shaped things. Or it may be that they make that lock. I would Google “august slam lock”. May be the way to go.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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so a couple of things:

first. gates are not like doors. they do not have closers on them and when we slam them they bounce back. this might be ok for a slam latch but for an automatic deadbolt this will be a problem because the gate might not settle in the aligned position. the deadbolt will extend and retract.

you really need a latch. and a dead latch at that. i am not sure if the cheap locks that work with august make a deadlatch for that type of tubular lock. a deadlatch might be able to be open with an august keypad and will certainly close.

even if you go with a deadlatch, these things can be shimmed by a credit card or thin piece of metal if they are not aligned properly and the auxiliary latch is not where it should be. this is ok when you run to the store for a few minutes. it is not how to leave a house for the weekend.

if you go with a baldwin mortise, you will want the deadlatch which i think is the 6066 model body (we have to confirm that) but again the deadlatch will not operate if the latch is not properly aligned with the frame and the auxiliary latch is not in position.

you can rely on a mortise deadbolt and not rely on the deadlatch but again, if the gate snaps back after a teenager pulls it shut and runs down the road (i tell my customers “tenants and teenagers” are the problem here), the august will go to work and find itself jambed and retract.

gates are not easy to deal with.

you may want to look at a yale or schlage smart knobset. i did put on on a gate at the start of covid and the gate was too think so i put a dressed piece of marine plywood on and all was good. also, i have a new wi fi sending unit i think for a schlage and i can give that away.

I can probably think of two or three more concerns for this set up.

Steve

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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i have a list of challenges and concerns for you. i have to get away from my desk and get to work so i cannot run down it now. i will get back or you can email me.

shatz | 1 year and 5 months ago

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I’ve looked into smart mortise locks for my security gate in the past and the only solutions I’ve been able to find are dedicated smart mortise locks (ex. yale nextouch, aqara A100, etc.), the switchbot lock (might not work in all instances), danalock (only works on european style mortises), or an electric strike controlled by some sort of smart relay

arewedoneyet | 1 year and 5 months ago

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Thanks again –

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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let me think about what i would do.

i am a lock retailer. but i do not actively retail. i do it for existing customers and when i do installations. i do not retail baldwin though one of the wholesalers i have an account with stocks some of their product but not what you or I or most brownstoners would want (they carry crap for the suburbs).

i have this modern baldwin trim set here and at this point i will give it to someone on this board for the ask but i doubt you will like it.

arewedoneyet | 1 year and 5 months ago

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Thanks for all of your input – IF you were doing this yourself and were installing a new understoop gate – what would you do? My only requirements are that I can use a multilock cylinder and that I have smartlock access. I’d be happy to buy any or all of it from you.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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I think the baldwin that use thru bolts are the modern sleek ones.