new under-stoop gate, smart-locks, new locusts

Hi, Happy post-Thanksgiving to everyone.

We’re getting to ready to replace our under-stoop iron gate and would appreciate some feedback on our plan.

The goal is to have a gate that opens and closes easily, that locks automatically when closed, where we can let people in without giving them a key periodically and where we’re not overally dependent on a not totally reliable smart-lock.

We’re going to use Piscopo ironwork. Vinnie’s is cheaper but won’t work with us on different lock options. Vinnie’s insists on using the one lock they always use.

We’re going to use a Baldwin or Marks mortise lock. I’m not clear whether one is really better then the other. Marks is still made on Long Island which is cool. We’re going to re-use the Multi-lock cylinder we already have since it’s keyed to a master-lock system already.

I think we’re going to try and use a solid knob on the outside with a spindle instead of the hollow thru-bolted ones. I’m not sure yet whether this will work.

We’re going to use an August lock with a keypad. We may have to adapt the August lock to the lockse t with a new tail piece. I can have one of these 3D printed.

I’d love to hear any thoughts on why any of this might be a bad idea and/or any different ways of doing the same.

Thanks in advance to anyone who reads this far.

best,

David

arewedoneyet

in General Discussion 1 year and 5 months ago

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arewedoneyet | 1 year and 5 months ago

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Thank you for the advice. I wouldn’t mind thru bolts if I could find trim that wasn’t so crappy.

I’m using this for access for cleaners, kids who lose expensive keys, the occasional renter – no airbnb for us.

Why tubular deadbolt versus one of these mortise ones? Any particular manufacturer/model you’d recommend? I thought tubular required a really thick gate. Yes, these will self-lock a deadbolt.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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that lock body you posted is for a thumb press style lock. it also does not look like it is a dead latch. if you want a slam latch you really should have a dead latch. you need the 6066 i think.

you know, here is the thing with the gate. i know you don’t want through bolts, but without them it is hard to mount the trim.

I am not sure what you are using this access for but if it is an air bnb and you modify that these locksets and someone got trapped inside in an emergency, that could spell trouble. be careful.

i would go with a dummy knob and a tubular deadbolt. i suppose that august will self lock a deadbolt?

arewedoneyet | 1 year and 5 months ago

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I’ve rigged the August to work with a Marks already – it will throw the bolt but required me to 3D print a piece for it. The August comes with pieces like this picture I’ve included. I’ve made one that has a male piece which will turn the lock.

What I’d do is disable the locking via the latch and simply rely on the August to lock the bolt behind me.

With regards to Baldwin pricing I’ve only been looking at the lock itself so far such as

https://www.baldwinhardwaredirect.com/products/6321-replacement-mortise-lock?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA9ourBhAVEiwA3L5RFl9zYAp6egNuXJVND_4kP2vmNSSo1Og6jn3uBf56W3z0gZFqALH4BhoC7WkQAvD_BwE

I haven’t figured out the trim and such yet.

What do you think is a good depth for the gate with regards to spindles and such? I’m still undecided whether I should bother with knobs and such or just use a deadbolt only and create a dummy handle of some sort. [Screenshot 2023-11-26 at 6](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:VAfb:screenshot20231126at6.43.40pm.png.jpg)

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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ok. first. august will not work with a mortise and that is what was throwing me off. august is for tubular and they are what have a tailpiece. i looked into the about two years ago now and unless something has changed, that is how it is.

when you look at baldwin, be sure you are not just looking at the trim set. many times you see someone advertising a trim set for $399 and then you have to go get a lock case (the insides) and that adds another 399.

Here is the problem you can have: only baldwin offers a true slam lock with a dead latch (not a dead bolt but a dead latch and maybe a bolt). a dead latch cannot be shimmed. i think the baldwin no is 6061 and i might have one here. or maybe a 6066.

Never buy through bolted anything.

but the marks will slam and lock but the lock can be shimmed with a credit card. not a dead latch. to really lock it, as if you are going away (as opposed to going to the corner store for 5 mins) you need to throw the deadbolt on a say a marks 91A. 91A is NOT the through bolted model; it has a spindle.

marks mi ght make a dead latch. but i do not think i see one in the catalog i have. a bigger wholesaler might have something.

if the gate is thin, you might need to cut spindles and you might need a spring bound expandable mortise collar for any cylinder that might be too long for the thin gate.

arewedoneyet | 1 year and 5 months ago

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I’m sorry it wasn’t clear. Let me try to clarify.

Only a mortise lock such as a Marks or Baldwin. Nothing tubular is intended.

I haven’t figured out the knobs and handles but mostly want to make sure I can get away with spindles rather than thru-bolted ones. You and I talked about this issue once a while ago. I suppose we could forego knobs and just go with a deadbolt only.

The August device goes on the inside of the gate where a thumb turn would go and turns it to unlock or lock. It’s not actually a lock but is instead a retrofit option. I like I better because we can easily remove it if we don’t like it in the future or want to replace it.

I see Baldwin for sale in the $330 range versus Marks $100ish. I don’t mind paying more if it’s a better product but I can’t tell and I’m having a hell of a time differentiating all of Baldwin’s model numbers.

I hope to install this gate with some clearances to prevent the rubbing that often interferes with their opening and closing. Also, some bracing to help keep it square over time.

Thanks

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 5 months ago

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This is a tad confusing. Are you installing two locks, a mortise and a tubular deadbolt? So a mortise knob and a tubular august deadbolt? Or a tubular deadbolt with an august adapter?

Marks is a fine product and i see twenty year old ones still out there. Baldwin is better but the weight of their product is a lot less since they began manufacturing in Mexico. I feel quality has slipped. A Marks costs like $100. A baldwin like 600 minimum. What you are paying for with the baldwin is the finer trimwork and knobs. Is spending $500 plus more on the gate worth it? Also, mounting any lock in a steel gate is not without immediate and long term challeges. In the end, because of fit and mounting, you might spend $700 on a baldwin and it might work like a $100 marks because of challenges with the fit and mounting.