Need Permit for changing a staircase?

Some things are worth repairing, some things aren’t. In my case the whole staircase was leaning substantially to one side, covered in linoleum, ripped that off only to leave glue behind. Wood was warped and bent pine. The structure holding the risers and treads were just 2 pieces of rough 2×6 lumber. Putting anything new on a flimsy structure, makes no sense. A new heavy duty boxed stringer staircase in quarter/rift white oak came out to $5800 not including installation/railing/clear coat. This was last year. Unless it’s some historical intricate staircase, it’s not worth being sentimental.

GreenThinker

in General Discussion 3 years and 2 months ago

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irozhko | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Hi all! Do I need a permit to remove and replace a very old staircase in a brownstone? (not landmark)

Thank you

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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I would think so because it could impact egress during construction, creating a dangerous situation. How many families? Is it required for egress through the front of the house, or is it the stair from the garden to the parlor which is typically redundant and may not be necessary for egress?

irozhko | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Thank you so much for responding. We have a 4 story (1 family home-just us). this would be all interior staircases. the company removes and replaces right away.

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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I would definitely expect that to require a permit because it poses a significant safety issue. The house will have no stairs so no means of egress, and will have open holes between floors that need safety railings, etc.

Guest User | 3 years and 2 months ago

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We were told that if we wanted to make one change to a staircase (for example, making it wider) we would then have to meet all requirements for the stair to meet code (restrictions on the minimum “rise” and “run”). Then the new staircase is longer than the old, and one needs an engineer to say how the support will be done. If you are replacing an old staircase with one with the same width and steepness, then the situation is different.

irozhko | 3 years and 2 months ago

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We are installing exact same staircase (per code). nothing smaller/nothing bigger. Not even sure who to ask

cate | 3 years and 2 months ago

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OP, there are stair specialist companies who replace the treads and risers with new ones that fit into the existing stringers and keep the newel post, bannisters and spindles. They work just a few steps at a time. If this is what you mean, I have never heard a permit is required. This is a repair only. The steps are usable when the workers are not there.

irozhko | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Hi Cate, yes i know that. but we are fully replacing the full staircase …the whole shabang.

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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It’s not the change so much as the conditions caused by the work, especially during the work. You’re creating a hazardous environment, and the DOB has really cracked down on job site security.

The DOB has published a list of work that can be performed without a permit: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/rules/1_RCNY_101-14.pdf. This document lists specific items and refers to section 28-105 of the building code, which includes the following (https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/apps/pdf_viewer/viewer.html?file=2014CC_AC_Chapter1_Administration.pdf&section=conscode_2014#:~:text=any%20required%20exit%3B-,4.,t%20requirements%2C,-or%20light%2C%20heat):

“28-105.4.2 Minor alterations and ordinary repairs. A permit shall not be required for minor alterations and ordinary repairs…
MINOR ALTERATIONS. Minor changes or modifications in a building or any part thereof, excluding additions thereto, that do not in any way affect health or the fire or structural safety of the building or the safe use and operation of the service equipment therein. Minor alterations shall not include any of the work described as “work not constituting minor alterations or ordinary repairs.”
WORK NOT CONSTITUTING MINOR ALTERATIONS OR ORDINARY REPAIRS. Minor alterations or ordinary repairs shall not include:…
4. The addition, rearrangement, relocation, removal or replacement of any parts of the building affecting loading or exit requirements…”

In other words, replacing the stairs falls under item 4 of work NOT constituting minor alterations, and therefore requires a permit.

irozhko | 3 years and 2 months ago

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gotcha…I guess I will try to research type of permit I need for it. FIngers crossed it can be ready in a 2 weeks 😀

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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You’ll need an architect or engineer to file with DOB. It would be an Alt 2 application, and the architect/engineer might be able to professionally certify it, which would get it through the DOB in a matter of days.

GreenThinker | 3 years and 2 months ago

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I’ve done this exact thing, used Atlantic stairs for the staircase. Don’t bother with a permit, it’ll only add thousands of dollars, money better spent elsewhere. Permit or not, nothing changes on site, only someone pocketing money in the name of bureaucracy.

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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At the risk of sounding like I’m taking the DOB’s side or trying to drum up business, I want to respond to the notion of permits being required only when something is changing. That’s not the only reason for permits. Job site safety is a big issue these days. The DOB is prioritizing reducing the number of injuries on site, and requiring permits is one way they can do that.

I’ve seen job sites where someone gets seriously injured by a simple, avoidable mistake. In addition to the fact that someone has gotten seriously hurt or killed, it causes a stop work order on the site which can only be removed after completing an extensive audit, costing everyone a lot of money and time. Add to that a violation for work without a permit, and your “little” job has just turned into a six month ordeal.

A part of my job as an architect is to help people avoid such things. If you choose to go ahead without a permit, make sure the contractor is being safe, make as little noise as possible, and make sure you’re on good terms with your neighbors before the work starts.

cate | 3 years and 2 months ago

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Another thought: Are you sure you want to replace the very old staircase? Experienced woodworkers can do wonders. Our stairs were pulling away from the wall, and our woodworkers were able to replace just the treads and risers, leaving everything else intact. The steps look exactly the same. They were able to go in from the front even though we have closed stringers, so the plaster underneath stayed intact. If you are doing a gut and replacing the headers with steel, even better. And you can still save the old staircase. Is this one of the curving Italianate ones with the mahogany hand rail?

yudashasom | 3 years and 2 months ago

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if you are cool with your neighbors – no permitz

jimhillra | 3 years and 2 months ago

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If you can do what Cate is suggesting, it will probably cost more than replacing the stairs, but you save money on the filing, and may end up with a much better product, not to mention saving the material from the landfill.

cate | 3 years and 2 months ago

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For repair (replacement of treads and risers), estimate about $10-15K per flight depending on what wood you use. Prices have gone up dramatically during the pandemic. About 10 years ago, quotes ran about $3,000 to $4,000 per flight. You can request stained samples of the wood before you begin so you can see how closely it will match existing stairs and floors. Water based products may be used to speed drying time and reduce toxicity.