Need of sprinkler after renovation? Going from 5-family CO to 2-family CO
This is a question I would have thought would have been very straightforward, but I can’t seem to get a single answer.
House built in 1845. Certificate of Occupancy from 1966 as a 5 family. City taxes as a 4-6 family. Deed has it listed as a 4 family. We want to renovate and bring it to a 2-family – garden floor apartment + upper floors unit.
Most architects I speak to say something to the effect of “That is an alt-1 so you will be forced to put in a sprinkler.” A contractor I have worked with in the past though doesn’t see why we would need a sprinkler put in, and said in his conversation with an architect “Generally speaking, a two family should not need a sprinkler system. Two family usually falls under the same life safety rules as one family (assuming each unit has separate and adequate egress).”
If anyone is an authoritative pro and can provide some informed insight, or could recommend someone for me to speak to, that would be appreciated!
xuytbjicwnofjdde
in General Discussion 1 year and 5 months ago
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arewedoneyet | 1 year and 4 months ago
the 30%, 60% numbers have to do with them determining that it is a substantial alteration which is what triggers the requirement to bring many items up to code including the sprinklers.
determining building value is another bizarre set of rules 😉 you should consider staying below 59% of either the assessed building value (which is likely to be very low) or replacement cost of the building. also, building value is the structure minus the land so market value of your property isn’t relevant.
is there a reason why you want to change the CofO? It will trigger all sorts of code requirements and will likely reset your taxes which probably means an increase. have you considered using it as a 2 family?
xuytbjicwnofjdde | 1 year and 4 months ago
So it looks like the number of floors is going to be the killer here for us and we have to get sprinklers – blah
jimhillra | 1 year and 5 months ago
The short answer is that the FDNY would have all buildings sprinklered, no matter the size. The justification behind the 60% is that they assume that when you’re spending that much to renovate, the additional cost of sprinklers is not as much of a hardship as it would be on a smaller renovation.
randolph | 1 year and 5 months ago
> @jimhillra
> you’re returning to a 1, that would not require sprinklers unless the work to do so costs more than 60% of the building value (#1) or increases the size as stated in #3 or #4.
please make it make sense…..sprinklers are there to put out a fire. why does the cost of renovation or size increase have any effect on the risk of fire?
randolph | 1 year and 5 months ago
> @Cole
> if the cost of your renovation is more than 30% of the value of your home you need to get sprinklers.
if true this is insane! why would a fire safety system be contingent on the cost of a renovation?
jimhillra | 1 year and 5 months ago
@umanish – That’s a good question. The fire code lists 5 instances in which an alteration to an existing building would require sprinklers:
They are (greatly simplified):
1: cost of alterations exceeds 60% of the value of the building.
2: change of use, except if returning to 1 or 2 families
3: increase in floor area of more than 125%
4: change in height from below 35′ to above 35′
5: one family being converted to 2 families
The exemption you quote is an exemption to #2. If any of the other 4 instances apply in your case, then the exemption would not apply. You would need to do the sprinklers.
If your house was converted from a 1-family to a 6, then a 5, and is now being used as a 4, but now you’re returning to a 1, that would not require sprinklers unless the work to do so costs more than 60% of the building value (#1) or increases the size as stated in #3 or #4.
One caveat here is that the DOB also has their own triggers, which is where the 30% may appl y. There are too many to list here, so you can look at NYC Building Code chapter 9, section 901.9.4 Additional requirements based on value of alterations.
xuytbjicwnofjdde | 1 year and 5 months ago
@jimhillra – so if our 1845 house was originally a 1-family, which it historically speaking almost certainly was, then regardless of the number of floors or anything that has happened to it since then to turn it into this multi-family, there is an exemption to turning it back to single family without sprinklers? There is no CofO on record dating back that far, of course though. The earliest CofO is from 1933 for a 2-family. Then it was changed to a 6-family in 1958 and then a 5-family in 1966. That is the current CofO. It was then reconfigured and the deed now says 4-family (although no new CofO was ever issued). Thank you!
jimhillra | 1 year and 5 months ago
I’ve been quoted, so let me jump in.
First, as Urbandad states, the basement is a story, so basement plus 3 equals 4 stories. Sometimes the code refers to the number of stories above grade, but that doesn’t apply here.
Second, the budget exemption is only if you are NOT changing the use. Going from 3 or more families to 1 or 2 is a change in use, so it doesn’t matter how much or how little work that takes. You’re changing the use, so that means sprinklers.
Third, yes, there’s an exemption for reverting a building to its original 1 or 2 family use.
Aside from the budget calculations, these stipulations, and others, are stated in the NYC Fire Code, section 501.4.3: https://up.codes/viewer/new_york_city/nyc-fire-code-2014/chapter/5/fire-operations-features#501.4.3. This section applies to buildings on streets less than 34 feet wide, which is most streets. Avenues may be bigger, so these may not apply.
I hope this helps.
cate | 1 year and 5 months ago
Shamrock, any major renovation or change of C of O will cause a house to be taxed at its full freight starting a year after the reno is complete. (The point about going from Class 2 to Class 1 was just that it may not result in the savings you might expect.)
cate | 1 year and 5 months ago
DOB sprinkler requirements have become more onerous in recent years, and experienced architects (and expediters) should be well informed about what is required.
hkapstein | 1 year and 5 months ago
@bob marvin The dob considers a basement to be a story, but a cellar is not one.
hkapstein | 1 year and 5 months ago
Yes I think you are right, I didn’t consider going from one 3+ to another, if you are not changing the use group in an MDL I’d guess that you could avoid a sprinkler install, but that wouldn’t apply here. If he could make it a 3 family it might be something.
Shamrock | 1 year and 5 months ago
If the C of O says 5 family the building was probably not rent stabilized. Your house may be in tax class 2, be careful moving into tax class 1, it may be a trap. Google moving from tax class 2 to class 1 there’s an article in nyrej by Peter Blond outlining pitfalls
Shamrock | 1 year and 5 months ago
I gut renovated an 8 family in the Heights and I didn’t put in a sprinkler. The job was audited and I had to submit my cost of renovations, but didn’t have to install the sprinkler.
cate | 1 year and 5 months ago
OP, I misread the details in your original post. If the C of O says the house is a five-family, it may contain rent-regulated units. These cannot be altered without a special process and a change of C of O. You can still live in the house as a two-family, provided any unit rented out follows any applicable rent-regulation rules.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 1 year and 5 months ago
But what exactly is a four story row house? The typical high stoop “four story “ house is legally three story plus basement.L
hkapstein | 1 year and 5 months ago
Jim hill has posted that that sometimes converting a townhouse to it’s original configuration, usually 1-family, may not require a sprinkler install. 3 story townhouses and some detached homes may also be exempt. But if you have a 4+ story rowhouse, and your are changing CofO, it appears that there is no getting around the sprinkler any more.
cate | 1 year and 5 months ago
If physical changes don’t need to be filed (not moving walls, changing egress, or relocating plumbing fixtures), it is legal to live in the house as a two-family while keeping it as a four-family. Your property tax will also stay the same. (This is good because converting from four to two will likely raise your taxes, as counterintuitive as that may sound.)
xuytbjicwnofjdde | 1 year and 5 months ago
@cole & @leeb
five floors in total – garden floor (partially below grade) + three stories + finished attic (less than 8 foot ceiling). So five liveable floors in total.
I would be fine doing a minimal work renovation so that the cost is well below 30% to get the CO to two-family – despite the mult-family status, it is not really carved up like a typical multi-family – all the “tenants” for several years before we bought it were part of the same extended family, so it had been largely restored to a free-flowing house. It more or less works as a “single-family” even as it is.