Matching Crown Moulding
Where does one go to get help match crown molding from a picture? I don’t have a profile unfortunately. Adriatic would need an exact drawing and the Dykes catalog shows profiles. I am struggling to reconcile the view from the front to the sectional profiles shown in the catalog. I am not sure why they don’t show both views. I guess I could go to Dykes and try to visually match or is there some company that can look at a photo and be able to make something similar.
Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago
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andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
jane, keep in mind, once a fire starts and the paint on the walls is burning, its all over anyway. at that point, my guess is a room has flashed over. i am not a fire man, so that is a guess.
Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago
Steve & Bob., thank you I spoke to Flex about a month ago – very nice people. My worry was flammability. I’ll probably still stick to plaster for the entry. Then figure out the costs for the hallway.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
jane, i order from flex moldings all the time and if you can get them a piece, i think they can make a mold of even the rounded parts, peel the mold off, and make the polyurethane molding and peel the mold off. i think.
their stock molding pieces for something lets say 3/8×1.5″x 8′ is like $27.00 and for something like 2″x2″x8′ is like $60.00. plus shipping. those i items in the dykes catalog.
i think, as i only did it once years ago, that a custom make is about 3 times the cost of a stock make. maybe a tad more than that.
this the company in Jersey City. there is another firm in Fletcher NC. i only use the NJ folks now. prices and turn around time much better. the NJ people are easy to work with..
primed and painted, you will not know the difference.
Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago
Aligned with that as an option as well. I was pointing to the site as an example of foam moldings not specifically the custom part. The company has both stock and custom. The consensus on the forum notwithstanding budget seems to be that plaster is the best approach for this area.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 4 years and 4 months ago
Those are custom molds, made from originals. Since your original molding is gone you might want to look at stock molding.
Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago
Yes and good idea. These guys: http://www.flexiblemoulding.com/products.html. I couldn’t decide if bad idea due to flammability. I assume flex molding looks less flat than wood but wouldn’t get the same visual feel as plaster as it would be fairly uniform and might stand out.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 4 years and 4 months ago
I suppose this is heresy, but what about polyurethane foam molding? I’ve only used a rope molding to add to the edges of one strangely cut down ceiling medallion, but I think there are some elaborate patterns available.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
looking at the photo, i would try to build this in a 4 part. a router can recreate some of this with stock blades. number 1 can be made with a stock bit. if this was on another wall, 2/3 can possibly be made in two pieces with stock bits, if 4 is the 1/8″ rebate, i would glue a piece of 1/8″ wood to the back of a panel molding and the dykes catalog has stuff that looks like 5/6. if this cannot be done with stock bits/pieces, it may be that a custom bit has to be made for one of the pieces.
Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago
Thank you – very helpful! 1) The photo i uploaded is only the entry, The entryway run is 18LF (I don’t have any existing plaster here to trace or make a mold from) This would be a full replacement. 2) The hallway is about 60LF. I have a plaster sample and I have an existing run of 12LF molding that I need to supplement. I don’t plan to mix plaster and wood – I know better. I have a trace of this profile already and Adriatic said they could make it in two parts.
However I think Cate and Urban dad are saying wood would not look as nice and to do the whole thing in plaster. It gets expensive for a hallway so I have to get some quotes then decide.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
and i just reread your post, to really do this, you want to take a photo, sit down and cirlcle the pieces in the dykes catalog and if adriatic was letting us inside, i would take the catalog to them and look at their sample collection. also, look at other moldings. when we are really stuck, we often by a wider molding that has our profile and either cut it off or build on it.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
how long is the run? if this is a replacement run, say one 8′ section, this is what i would consider, especially if it is on another wall. if it is right next to what you are replicating you might have trouble:
that is a very simple molding when broken down in parts. i would do this if i were working in a house: i would first see if adriatic makes any molding that looks like part of that and if they make one that looks like the last segment at the top or the first one at the bottom, that is a real good start. so i would draw that piece in on a piece of paper. and then i would look a the pieces that are missing and try to decide how to get them. for each of those numbers on the photo, i would be looking at something in the dykes/adriactic catalog. what i cannot get, i would take a profile of and have made. and to use the contour gauge (you will not get around the round piece; same issue adriatic will have cutting it), i would focus on the parts i cannot get, and i would use the blade to trace them and transfer that to foam board and cut and then take t he piece that is the cut out of the profile and place it to the profile to see if it matches. bingo.
for absolute round pieces and half rounds, for repairs, i spin them on a lathe. we rarely find them in stock catalogs any more as they can not be mass produced, as you allude to.
unless we have a huge run of molding to copy, which we never have anymore as i do not run crown, i make “built up” three, four or five piece moldings and i do it on doors all time. we do stuff like this and sometimes get a custom router bit made for that one odd but small piece in the build up. three and four part moldings have been used since the brownstone period, we just cannot always tell when we encounter one until we rip it apart.
once you get all the pieces laid out, you can glue them up.
also, i did not look at the photo last night but did now and if i wanted to have this run, i would find a way to use a contour gauge, to take a trace and have it cut by adriatic. of course they cannot be responsible for it but it will be close.
Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago
I have intact plaster moldings in other areas. To be truthful, I have not sat down and studied everything side by side in great detail. The hallways appeared to be different that the entry. I just started to take more photos so I can start to compare them.
Thank you for sharing your experience. The whole thread has been very informative and useful and all the responses had filled in gaps in my knowledge. I believe both you and urbandad are saying the wood will not have the same look. My understanding from this is that crown molding is better done in plaster if one wants it look similar to what was there before. Wood would be more uniform and flatter than plaster which has more depth and more visual interest due to irregularities. I was talking to Adriatic about ceiling trim for a hallway and they said they could replicate in wood but that I wouldn’t get that rounding unless I did it in two parts. But regardless I can see that wood will not look similar.
cate | 4 years and 4 months ago
You have no other such plaster crown moldings anywhere in your house? A master plasterer would begin by documenting/creating a profile (as you know) of the existing molding but since there is none may have to instead, going by your photo, select an appropriate seeming profile from the zillions of ones they’ve already used on houses of your age. One thing I can tell you about circa 1860s Italianate moldings, having painted them, is the rounded parts (like overlapping lengths of cording, one might say) are very deep. When it comes to wood moldings, sometimes one can find similar profiles still made today, but the rounded parts will not be as rounded/high/deep (or as beautiful). It’s similar, but not quite the same.
Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago
Hi Cate, really good and helpful explanation for those that don’t know. I was clear on above aspects and went to art school so I understand the differences in process and materials.
Urban dad, I used the gauge on a different ceiling where the plaster was intact. The ceiling is difficult as the compound moulding often curves where the ceiling meets wall. The profile gauge will not accurately capture those angles or the depth correctly. It works ok for base board and casing. That process is also time intensive. One has to use the gauge, then free hand a bit. I might have used putty here and there to capture the curves. The gauges are not long enough and the pins not precise enough for these curves. The metal gauges are more accurate than the plastic ones but they are usually shorter and these moldings tend to be wide.
cate | 4 years and 4 months ago
Coming late to this party. Please excuse me if this is already clear, but Dyke’s and Adriatic carry wood moldings, not plaster moldings. One does not replicate or restore a plaster crown molding by buying it. One employs a master plaster craftsman to make it. Moldings such as this one are run in place, not made from molds. Unfortunately, hand crafted detail like this is a tad pricey (compared to, say, skim coating) but well worth it. Although the art seems to be fading, luckily there are still a number of master plasterers in Brooklyn who know how to do this kind of work.
hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago
It seems like you know how to do this. I agree with your conclusions about the profile gauge. You can’t just use it easily when certain features of the moulding are blocked by other. Did you get it done this way, and did you have to kind of guess any areas?
Guest User | 4 years and 4 months ago
Thanks for the thoughtful explanation – very informative and helpful. I’m not intimidated. had someone recreate plaster ceiling trim for a room and he showed me how he made the mold.
I called Decocraft and they told me to find a stock design from their catalog but I didn’t see anything that matched. Being meticulous is my Achilles heel. Last year, I spent days looking for a door knob and then ended up designing it.
The profile gauge works well for simple shapes but it takes a lot of effort for something like this. I traced some of the existing molding and found that out the hard way. In the process, i also got a lecture from Adriatic on how it needed to be done. I almost resorted to getting a silicon mold kit from Amazon to supplement the drawing. But not sure if that would have worked so there’s my Achilles heel.
hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago
@steve, a contour guage will only work on a photograph if the moulding is a 1920s craftsman type, and even then it will miss some detail. This is what I teach my over eager employees on day one.
I’m kidding of course, I very much appreciate the time you take to help folks out here on the brownstoner forum, and your remarks are always welcome. 😉
hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago
For this I’d definitely recommend plaster. Plaster mouldings are often used for ceilings, they are dimensionally much more stable so they won’t show seams or misalign like a wood moulding will. But the drawback is they are brittle by comparison and on a door trim or corner bead they would get chipped easily and not last long. In my opinion wood won’t look right in this location, and probably won’t be much cheaper or easier to fabricate than gypsum plaster in a similar profile.
If you’re intimidated by making a small plaster moulding, you shouldn’t be. I wouldn’t say it’s tougher than making a custom wood moulding, it probably will be easier. And there are stock plaster mouldings, you might find one that works, and there tend to be better photos of what they look like. Decocraft has many samples.
Personally I’d prefer to do a similar moulding in plaster than do the exact moulding in wood. I think it would look more appropriate, and more typical of what you see in original details. But it’s your house, so it really only matters how you want it to look. But you seemed pretty meticulous about that moulding.