Master Plumber Help Desperately needed!

Master Plumber help needed-

This is a long one and I hope someone is able to help or give some suggestions. We completed a gut reno on a 4 story, 3 family brownstone last year. We absolutely hated our plumber who was shoved down our throat by our GC. I have so many plumbing issues in the house I have been addressing one by one. “Tapping” noises all over the cellar and ground floor due to thermal expansion from pipes not being properly fastened to a bang when my top floor tenants flush the toilet. Our walls have been opened up more times than I can count. I have a good grip on just about everything at this point (for the most part) other than the banging. Now follow me here-

It is NOT a water hammer. I am certain of it- Water hammer arresters have been installed on every toilet and fixture in the house. We had the water hammer problem already which has been resolved.

It sounds like the cast iron pipe is actually banging up against framing. I was told this was not possible due to the weight of the cast iron pipe but I was so sure I knew what the noise was that I cut open the walls and found the pipe to be secure, so it’s not that.

The waste line goes up to the top of the roof and straight down from each of the two apartments. The only slight turn is inside our master bathroom in our bedroom on the ground floor.
I can live with hearing the water sound (even though I know the pipe should have never been placed inside my master bath wall to begin with). The Banging noise drives me absolutely insane though. The thing is, it doesn’t happen every single time. I had this crazy weigh theory that I thought it was the toilet paper making the noise and hitting the angle in our master bath.

The plumber just came back to our house this past weekend and after many flushes, he finally heard it. He has no idea what is making the sound (but the guy is about as sharp as a marble).
He suggested he send his buddy to our house who has a camera to drop down the line. He was convinced that something was stuck in there. Well, there isn’t. The camera went right through with no issues and the guy doing it didn’t see a thing. So………… What is it!? I can’t wrap my head around it and its driving me absolutely insane. I am hoping we can all put our heads together and attempt to figure this out. And yes…. I am sure it’s not a water hammer. It’s this weird banging type sound that doesn’t happen every time but when it does, it can wake us up (that’s how loud it is).

I have had 3 plumbers come to the house and they either have no clue what it could be or I can’t make it happen for them while they are there. I feel like people think we are nuts and are making this up. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Would love some replies from some master plumbers. I do not want to finish my house by patching up any holes they have made until I figure out what in the world this could be. THANK YOU

stuyheights

in General Discussion 8 years and 8 months ago

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reuventenam | 8 years and 7 months ago

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I don’t see any pictures . Send it to my email smbplumbing@gmail.com

stuyheights | 8 years and 7 months ago

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Thank you all again for your replies. I heard the “Bang” again last night. I also had the tenants flush 2 gallons of water down the toilet bowl and it didn’t happen. For the life of me I cannot figure this out or what is causing it.

Reuven- any other ideas on anything further I can look into? The problem is, the cellar is finished. Not only finished, but sound proofed. I would have to rip off two layers of sheetrock to get to the underside of it.

The line drops straight from the top floor apartment, straight down to the second, through the parlor, then down to the master bathroom, then has a 45 which I provided a picture of, then cuts across the entire width of the cellar. I wonder if the noise is coming from when it hits the cellar and cuts across and is banging up against something. The plumber used a combo of PVC and Cast Iron everywhere. I guess its possible for me to be hearing something from the cellar when it sounds like the wall in the master bath but I were to bet I would say it was the master bath. When it makes the noise (sometimes harder/louder then other s) it sounds like it is bouncing. Like the impact is causing it to bounce off of a stud or something.

Does the picture I provided look correct?

reuventenam | 8 years and 8 months ago

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The sound might be coming from the water hitting a tee. As an example. The force and speed of the water as it travels to the end point which is your house trap might be hitting a wall inside the piping and the sound is the water bouncing off that inner wall. This really is not an uncommon problem. There is a rule we follow when installing waste lines. That rule is All waste piping must turn on a 45 degree angle so as to allow a smooth flow to its end point. Now if there is a tee in a spot the the water hits depending on what the water is taking with it the added weight can increase the sound. The one part where it cannot happen is on a vertical drop. It has to hit something. I hope this helps you in any way.

GreenThinker | 8 years and 8 months ago

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Try flushing with a bucket filled with about 2 gallons of water. If you get a bang this way, you’ll know it’s something with the waste pipe. It’s more likely that it’s something with the water line. Most water lines aren’t secured properly.

stuyheights | 8 years and 8 months ago

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Resident, Thank you for your reply. Based on anything I have read I have certainly considered this a possibility but not quite sure how I would know if it was properly vented or not. According to the plumber, yes. I have tons of pictures of the construction of the house to refer to. There are vent lines on every floor

resident2 | 8 years and 8 months ago

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Is it properly vented?

stuyheights | 8 years and 8 months ago

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[IMG_0551](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:POuk:img_0551.png.jpg)
This is what the pipe looks like in the master bathroom. This is the only turn/bend. The rest goes straight up to both apartments. I am hearing the noise in the master bathroom 100%