Keeping 2 family CoO with 1 kitchen?

Be aware that if you don’t pay the gas bill for a year they will shut off service. Getting it up and running may be an issue in the future. Probably time for new pipes, which is worth the money while you are making a mess. In my old co-op an owner turned off her gas because she was afraid of the stove. When the new owners tried to get it turned on they failed the pressure test and all 8 units almost got turned off. This was in 2003, before the DOB went nuts on gas testing (often warranted).

kaiapapaya

in General Discussion 6 years and 6 months ago

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aleafb | 6 years and 6 months ago

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We are planning a renovation on a 2 family town house with a top floor apartment and bottom level duplex. We plan to use it as a 1 family, but would like to keep the 2 family status.
Down the road, when we can afford it, we might want to make the basement a rental, but right now we don’t have the budget. Can we renovate the top floor to get rid of the kitchen and still keep it as a 1 family? Is that legal?

JohnHancock | 6 years and 6 months ago

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I did a refi in my 2 fam used as 1 with 1 kitchen. No problem there but if you do s Reno w permits and have a inspector I’m not too sure. It’s usually ok to have it this way but never ok to have more kitchens than allowed

Arkady | 6 years and 6 months ago

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I have the same thing – 2 family used as one & w/ only one kitchen. No problems in 35 years & I was told it’s o.k. – unlike going the other way: i.e. 1 family used as 2.

aleafb | 6 years and 6 months ago

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Thanks for the replies! This puts me at ease, for now.

a2chitect | 6 years and 6 months ago

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You will not be able to file the project to obtain a work permit and get rid of the kitchen. If you do this, you will have to change the C of O to a one family. While many people use their two family as a one family, once you file your plans with the DOB, the filing must either conform to the existing use, or you have to change the use.

aleafb | 6 years and 6 months ago

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What if our plan includes adding a kitchen to the basement? It’s part of our grand plan – we just have to do the work in stages because of our budget.

a2chitect | 6 years and 6 months ago

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Then that is a different story (no pun intended). But this would need to be part of your filing.

aleafb | 6 years and 6 months ago

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Thanks!

kevrob | 6 years and 6 months ago

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If any of your previous posters are architects, they’d know way better than I would for sure, but I always thought plans like this contained two problems:

1) your C of O usually lists not only how many families (apts) can occupy the building but also where those apts are situated. So your current CofO would say something like “Floors 1-2: one family; Floor 3: one family”. It’s my understanding that if you moved the layout, you wouldn’t get in trouble for over-occupancy, but you’d still technically need to change the CofO to be in line with the law.

2) You’d have to redo gas and electric for the top and bottom floors or your metering would be all messed up (unless you’re going to include gas and electric in the rent I guess)

All that being said, I know several people who’ve done conversions like this and said, “Eh, who cares?” And been fine. Though I always wondered what kind of problems it would create for a sale down the road.

resident2 | 6 years and 6 months ago

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Do you currently have a CofO? I ask because, the top floor rental scenario often pre-dates CofO’s. If you do not have a CofO then there is no record of where the rental is.
Just go ahead, you are not changing the use. Always Use licensed Plumbers & electricians to do their changes, but do do not file it. Do the work at your pace, be careful not to put a dumpster outside, do not cause anything to raise attention and if someone does stop by make sure that it is always clean & tidy and looks like you are just doing plaster, paint etc.
You do not need to file for replacing kitchen cabinets, tile, mill-work etc? No, so just make sure it only looks like that.
But always keep the doors locked, so no-one can just drop in.
If you do have a CofO that spells out where the duplex is and where the single unit is; as you are not changing its use, I would go ahead as above.
When it comes to re-sale; if someone or their Attorney makes a huge fuss, just find another buyer. I have never seen or heard of a Bank appraiser making a fuss about it.
The bottom line is, if you file it and get a new CofO it will cost you a lot more money & time to do it as well as raising your RE Taxes based on the improvements.

Guest User | 6 years and 6 months ago

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> @resident2
> do not file it
do this at your own risk. if you’re doing a major rehab it’s going to be hard to get a contractor to do the work without a good way to dispose of demo material (like a dumpster) and the work-without-a-permit fines were recently raised (https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/pdf/work_without_permit_civil_penalty_sn.pdf), leaving both contractor and homeowner exposed. Also, if you’re talking about removing a kitchen that has a gas line I believe that the violations for gas work without a permit have been increased recently as well. you would also be very much at the mercy of your neighbors and if anyone is feeling less-than-chummy they could easily start calling into complaints getting you into a pretty unpleasant situation.

Guest User | 6 years and 6 months ago

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> @resident2
> do not file it
do this at your own risk. if you’re doing a major rehab it’s going to be hard to get a contractor to do the work without a good way to dispose of demo material (like a dumpster) and the work-without-a-permit fines were recently raised (https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/pdf/work_without_permit_civil_penalty_sn.pdf), leaving both contractor and homeowner exposed. Also, if you’re talking about removing a kitchen that has a gas line I believe that the violations for gas work without a permit have been increased recently as well. you would also be very much at the mercy of your neighbors and if anyone is feeling less-than-chummy they could easily start calling into complaints getting you into a pretty unpleasant situation.

a2chitect | 6 years and 6 months ago

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As an architect, I would encourage you to file the job so you know that if you want to sell one day, you won’t have any issues. You also won’t have to worry about the neighbors calling 311 to stop you. There are ways to file and phase a job to fit with your budgeting and time expectations, it just has to be carefully thought out. Until you have a clear idea of what funds you have to work with, it will be hard to advise you one way or the other. Feel free to reach out if you want to discuss further. www.architect-a2.com

powell5424

in General Discussion 6 years and 6 months ago

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Hi there! All dwelling units must have a kitchen or kitchenette to comply with NYC Building Code. If it’s a “2-family” it needs 2 kitchens. No way around it. (For more info on this, look into the requirements per the State Multiple Dwelling Law.) There would also need to be a public hall of some sort separating the dwelling units (solved by having a stair hall, probably). If you’re looking to skirt the rules because you’re the only people living in the building, you could renovate the extra apartment with a kitchen “roughed in,” but not installed – i.e. provide proper floor areas, pipes in the walls for a sink, work counter area, a connection for an electric range – then don’t install that stuff and use the room as part of the living room, closet, etc. If you convert to 2-bed or sell, hook up your appliances and you’re set!

parkslopeguy | 6 years and 6 months ago

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not saying this is kosher but i have seen many apartments that “lost” a kitchen. typically the lines are cut in the wall so if/when the kitchen needs to reappear it can be easily accomplished.