Humid Cellar

If u get real lucky u may talk to enuf contractors that u find one able to give u an intelligent solution and u could have them give u a price and a liklihood of success.

brownstone89

in General Discussion 3 years and 9 months ago

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nathanjoe755 | 3 years and 10 months ago

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Hello! So approaching the 1 year mark of owning my little condo with cellar access.

Recap: Around August 2020 I removed 90% of the drywall in the cellar. I discovered that it was almost all moldy (seriously, in some cases moldy drywall was put on top of slightly less moldy drywall). The removed drywall was not replaced.

Now after living here for about a year I am realizing it is very hot and humid down there. I don’t have a meter yet but we are running 2 dehumidifiers (they are 35-50 pint) (one has been hooked up to a pump — thanks @bobjbkln! it works great!)

Is this just how cellars are? Are there different things I can do to help move air around? I have been keeping an eye on the cellar since taking off the drywall and there aren’t any leaks… but the brick and stone are probably taking in the moisture of the ground?

I plan on limewashing the brick and stone foundation soon.

Any theories?

nathanjoe755 | 3 years and 10 months ago

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[Screen Shot 2021-06-30 at 2](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s1/:brownstoner:QsuM:screenshot20210630at2.12.47pm.png.jpg) [Screen Shot 2021-06-30 at 2](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s1/:brownstoner:RkUG:screenshot20210630at2.13.08pm.png.jpg)

JohnHancock | 3 years and 10 months ago

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I assume the dehumidifiers put out a lot of heat, sounds like you have not enough or any ventilation.

nathanjoe755 | 3 years and 10 months ago

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Very true. Zippy ventilation. Do you have any recommendations for ventilation? I don’t have ducts nor do I have the budget for them. I was looking at this https://www.buildclub.com/product/bc0_427191997 is it worth it? Anyone tried it? Sorry this is scattered I have been going down every internet rabbit hole you can imagine.

ceci | 3 years and 10 months ago

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Why don’t u consult with an architect? It might be worth it in the long run!!

cate | 3 years and 10 months ago

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Or maybe an engineer with expertise in this area. At the very least, you need windows (open with screens) under hatches front and back to bring in air. Boiler needs air. Real dedicated vents or ducts would work better though IMHO.

Guest User | 3 years and 10 months ago

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Do you have a boiler room with equipment? By code you need a fresh air vent into the boiler room – sized based on what you have.

nathanjoe755 | 3 years and 10 months ago

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Does any one know what how much getting an architect or engineer to give me some recommendations would cost? Does any one know of someone and architect or engineer with knowledge with dealing with cellars?

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 3 years and 10 months ago

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You might try simply leaving your front and back hatch covers open on a few hot sunny days.

JohnHancock | 3 years and 10 months ago

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Maybe OP doesn’t have such a setup and his cellar isn’t in a traditional row house but a different kind of building. OP can you elaborate?

dorkofwindsor | 3 years and 10 months ago

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Yes, basically this is just how these basements are.

unclear what is going on with that floor, it could potentially be a similar mold problem. If there is a concrete slab I would highly recommend you leave it bare – I see something on top which will trap moisture and mold.

I would put my money on the heat you are feeling is from the dehumidifiers if there are no windows down there. Basements should be cooler in the summer but more humid. Having said that, if the doors to the basement / cellar are leaky from an air standpoint, it will suck in more hot humid outdoor air, which requires even more humidification, which in turn generates more heat. Humidifiers throw off serious heat by design – its how the dehumidification process works.

Some people may recommend an ERV (an ERV does some dehumidification), which will bring in somewhat tempered fresh air into the basement space. In the humid south newer builders use ERV’s to temper (and slightly dehumidify) and then also use dehumidifiers (which don’t have to work quite as hard). If you put an ERV on a timer say 10 minutes every hour your basement should seem fresh and the humidifiers may not have to work quite so hard, and it shouldn’t use much energy at all.

As far as a “boiler room” – if you do have a self enclosed, ventilated boiler room, check for air tightness so that heat and humidity is not making it through to your basement space. If there is no self enclosed boiler room that is another issue, but obviously the heat from the water heaters will add to the heat.

cate | 3 years and 10 months ago

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An engineer might charge anywhere from $400 to $2,500 to come take a look — the higher number could include two site visits and a report. If you get a firm that is really good and gives you accurate and detailed information about the state and needs of the cellar, not just vague one size fits all platitudes, it is money well spent in my opinion.

nathanjoe755 | 3 years and 10 months ago

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Thanks! This is helpful!

Yeah, I don’t have a row house.

The building I am in is divided into 4 quads. I have two exterior facing and two interior facing walls. It was built in the early 1900’s and renovated in the early 90’s.

The concrete is actually tiled over except for a 8 inch wide by maybe 3 inch deep channel around the perimeter of the exterior facing walls. The dark line is actually an access cover to the different pipes that service the building. There is also maybe 2-3 feet of space down there? I haven’t poked my head down there for too long because it gives me he willies.

I turned off one of the dehumidifiers and that did ramp down the heat quite a bit so thanks for that suggestion!

The boiler room is enclosed and is vented. But I will look for air tightness!

I will look into an ERV system… and also try and find an engineer who can give me some advice.

Guest User | 3 years and 10 months ago

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http://www.pilloriassociates.com Spoke to him about my cellar though different issues.

dorkofwindsor | 3 years and 10 months ago

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That channel may be a source of humidity if it is just a dirt bottom. Could be an interior drain tile though, can’t say for sure, but if so that isn’t a bad thing. The lime wash seems like a fine product to use on brick.

cate | 3 years and 10 months ago

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Maybe speak to the other tenants/the board first and/or read the minutes first before consulting an engineer? Anything going on in your part of the cellar would probably be happening in the rest of the cellar and your part will affect the rest and vice versa. In fact the cellar can affect the entire building. And you certainly want to be sure everything is structurally sound (such as no broken pipes outside sending water into the cellar, which can destroy the footing — but it doesn’t sound like that’s an issue). I don’t know what limewashing is and I don’t know much about brick (our cellar walls are rubble). If the grout is falling apart, typically people recommend repointing (and in the case of our rubble walls, parging — not sure if that’s recommended for brick). Apparently it has to be done quite often, like every decade or so. I would think this would actually be the building’s responsibility, since this is structural. In my experience, yes, some dampness is to be expected, and I would never dream of putting drywall in a cellar for that reason. Supposedly you can m ake it dry by digging down outside and waterproofing the wall from the outside and also laying down a slab with a moisture barrier (and maybe other stuff) underneath, but needless to say it’s terribly expensive and not very practical, plus I’m not sure it really works 100 percent. In any case, I’d think getting some fresh air down through through a vent would be vital. As well as the dehumidifiers. And I’d never store anything down there (and if you do, make sure it’s raised off the ground with air circulating around it). Good luck.

nathanjoe755 | 3 years and 10 months ago

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This was all super helpful thanks! I will report back once I know more if only to help someone further down the line.

cate | 3 years and 10 months ago

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    ["rank_math_redirections"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_role_manager"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_search_console"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_site_analysis"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_analysis"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_general"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_advanced"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_snippet"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_onpage_social"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_admin_bar"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_analytics"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["rank_math_content_ai"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["srm_manage_redirects"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["SPF Manage Analytics"]=>
    bool(false)
    ["administrator"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["editor"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Yes please do, would love to hear what you find. Good luck with everything.

hkapstein | 3 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4937 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4939 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "197623"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "hkapstein"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Bi/rarQU.AidQ5DWnWIzXSi7UikLcx/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(31) "boerumamaemailnotprovided-local"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "hkapstein@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2018-06-15 18:43:24"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(14) "Helen Kapstein"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(197623)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Late to the party, but cellars are cool due to the relatively consistent ground temperature below the frost line. Hot humid weather in the summer results in condensation and water accumulation in the cellar. In general this issues will not be complained about to architects and engineers before sign-off so ymmv with them. Passive house architects may be more aware of such issues. Insulation in the walls particularly under the slab can have affect moisture and humidity significantly, and the a