Help removing original mirror

MDR, it’s an original two-family with an apartment over a duplex. One of the giveaways is the two identical original bathrooms behind the stair, including one on the parlor floor. They are circa 1890s and had indoor plumbing and no privy. They do typically have a “servants” toilet off the mudroom on the ground floor that in a way is like the privy has come almost into the house but not quite.

cate

in General Discussion 5 years and 2 months ago

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Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago

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Hello,
I am in the process of renovating our brownstone. In the entrance hall, right before the stairs, we have an original mirror with its wooden frame. We have had the wood stripped for the mirror and now noticed that there’s a very small water leak with water sipping through the base of the mirror (photos attached).
When it rains, there is no water falling down the walls, so it seems like it’s coming into our house from behind the mirror.
Our GC has recommended removing the mirror to investigate but they don’t want to do it because they think it will break if they try. It is true that the wood is a bit cracked in a couple spots.
What kind of specialist would we need to remove the mirror making sure it doesn’t break? The wood seems to be glued to the plaster wall somehow.
Any recommendations and contacts would be very welcome.

Thanks!
[IMG-20200313-WA0006](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:S4nP:img20200313wa0006.jpg.jpg)

yudashasom | 5 years and 3 months ago

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There is no way the leak is coming from behind, so don’t remove it.

Is the wall damp in the room above? Probably a roof issue.

Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago

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There is no dampness anywhere from the roof to the mirror. And we just finished demolition down to the joists, so we would see water somewhere if if was coming from the roof. My GC theory is that our neighbor may have their plumbing raiser behind the mirror, because it is in the same location where their chimney flue is. He says either they have a leak in the raiser or the hot water is creating condensation. Because we also see the leak when it doesn’t rain.
My GC has been doing this for over 35 years and he says it’s always the roof. But this time he just can’t explain it from the roof, he says he hasn’t seen anything like this in 35 years.

resident2 | 5 years and 3 months ago

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It seems obvious to me if it is not from the roof, it is from your neighbor.
DO NOT move the mirror if you want to keep it.
Go and investigate from your neighbors side.
Does it leak just during the heating season or all year round? What kind of heating system do your neighbors have?
I once had a neighbors old steam system leaking into one of my houses from both the riser & return line, one had corroded out the other and all the condensation & water was seeping through into my property in a very similar location, a little closer to the front door.

yudashasom | 5 years and 3 months ago

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With the additional info, I agree with resident2 .

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 5 years and 3 months ago

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I would still look at the roof first. I once had a leak on my back parlor ceiling with no evidence of any problem on the floor above. That was fixed with a roof flashing patch.

cate | 5 years and 3 months ago

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I agree with all the statements above. You should not remove the mirror. However, FWIW, there are specialists who do only glass/mirror/screen repair and installation who can do this — or they can tell you it cannot be done without breaking the mirror. These are guys who come into your house to repair and install these materials. I cannot recommend repair people because I work for Brownstoner. However these people do exist in Brooklyn and I have used them to repair broken screens, broken panes of glass in interior doors, and to install a huge mirror. Some of them also handle stained glass although that is even more a specific speciality.

Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago

string(1) "3"
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Thanks for your answers. Resident2, we bought the house in November so we have not observed non-heating season yet. I’ll ask my neighbors what heating system they have and whether the pipes are in that area. We actually never saw the issue before the wood was stripped. I assume the multiple layers of paint were keeping the water behind the mirror. Which is another reason why removing it would be so complicated, I’m pretty sure that the wood has been compromised by the leak.

Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago

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Thanks Cate. How would I find these professionals? What are they called?
Thanks!

cate | 5 years and 3 months ago

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Do a Google search for “glass repair Brooklyn” “window glass repair Brooklyn” “window screen repair Brooklyn” “mirror glass repair Brooklyn” — also instead of Brooklyn it’s a good idea to search by your own neighborhood as well as others. Also try central Brooklyn neighborhoods that have a high number of old houses with stained glass.

yudashasom | 5 years and 3 months ago

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I’ve noticed in a lot of buildings, that the entryway mirror is often cut/notched into the brick. It very well could be the roof And the water is traveling between the brick and running down the back of the mirror. I do think resident2 has a good point. I just haven’t seen too many heating pipes notched into the brick. Waste and domestic water, yes. But not heating pipes. Is there an bathroom/kitchen in the neighbors building against that wall on one of the floors above?

Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago

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So, the plot thickens…
I had my GC contractor remove a couple of bricks right above the mirror to test no-permitz theory, which was also my architect’s. We had water coming out of the mirror today but behind the bricks right above the mirror it is completely dry.
Another clue to this mystery is the following: We noticed when putting our hand on the wall right next to the mirror that it is warm to the touch. Our house has been fully demo’d now so we have no pipes whatsoever. So it is a fact that the neighbor’s heating goes through their chimney flue, which is right behind our mirror. We then went and talked to them, which we wanted to avoid as we had not met them yet and it is not the greatest to meet your neighbor only to tell them that we have an issue. They confirmed that they have steam heating (they don’t know where the pipes go through).
Now, at this point I think it’s their heating pipe that goes through their flue has a leak and it’s leaking into our wall.
The other theory I was thinking is that since our house has no heating now and theirs does, if the ho t pipe is right behind that wall, could the space behind the mirror be creating condensation of water and having that water leak slowly from behind the mirror? It looks to me like it’s a bit too much water to be explained by simple condensation, but who knows.
We agreed with our GC that we will reach out to a company to put a camera into the chimney from the roof to try and see if we can find a leak in the neighbor’s heating pipe.

Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago

string(1) "3"
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And thanks to everyone who is contributing. I really want to try and save this mirror so I appreciate all the input. I will keep you posted with our progress.

BKALLDAY | 5 years and 3 months ago

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Call Tamer and Tamer Wood Restoration at 917-916-3173. Not cheap but a lovely guy. If you are attached to keeping the glass then he can remove the moulding holding the mirror in place before tackling the removal of the wood part. He restored all my pocket windows. Good luck. I hope everything goes well.

Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago

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check to see if the mirror is in line with the chimney from either your, or your neighbors boiler…it sounds to me like there is a cracked section in one of the two boilers feeding into an unlined flue (typical of townhouses in brooklyn) causing steam condensation to leak through the brick at the weakest point in the brick . Look up on the roof and you should notice white smoke coming out of the chimney when the cracked boiler is operating. If so , that is the problem and the flue should be lined and the boiler repaired or replaced

Guest User | 5 years and 3 months ago

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So a chimney specialist/plumber came today to take a look. We went to the neighbor’s cellar and inspected the boiler. He found that what goes through the chimney flue is not the heating pipes, it’s the exhaust of the boiler. He then said he already knew what the problem was but would show us in a minute. He then proceeded to open the exhaust tube that goes into the flue and showed us how the tube was completely obstructed with pieces of clay. He explained that it’s common for clay flues to disintegrate over time and collapse. They fall down obstructing the exhaust of the boiler. That means that the CO cannot escape through the chimney to the outside and it condensates. Apparently the leak of condensation into our house is not even the worst of the situation, the problem is that there is CO that doesn’t escape and can come into both our and our neighbor’s houses, which is dangerous.
He suggested that the neighbor needs to re-line the flue with a metal flue liner, which will cost around $8,000.
My neighbor was not very happy (understandably so).

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 5 years and 3 months ago

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Maybe your neighbor SHOULD be HT happy since you’ve saved him from possible CO poisoning. I’m amazed that his boiler lacks a spill switch that would shut it down if there’s a CO build-up. EVERY ONE should have that!

Guest User | 5 years and 2 months ago

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8000 to line the chimney is over double what it should cost… have your neighbor call A and A chimney or A and J chimney…they are both incredibly honest and reasonable
https://www.ajchimney.com/
https://www.brownstoner.com/services/chimney-fireplaces-nyc/d5395d17c6d6eb/a-a-chimney-fireplace-co-710-e80-street-brooklyn-ny-11236/

cate | 5 years and 2 months ago

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Yes, but just watch out because you took out bricks and their brick could also be leaking — you can get a puff back when they reline the chimney. It happened to us even though AFAIK they did everything by the book. Maybe if you cover the area where the chimney is all throughout the house and cellar with plastic? Maybe Eman137 can explain.