Help Me Devise a System to Keep Basement Dry
Ok – so I’ll be digging out the entire front garden and also poking into the basement. This project will have to wait, for now I’ll gladly employ a mop as my solution.
Appreciate everyone’s input!!!
amt230
in General Discussion 2 years and 2 months ago
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amt230 | 2 years and 2 months ago
Hi – just bought our brownstone in BedStuy and refinished by basement as part play space. Over the last year I’ve owned the place, there has been no water in the basement, but I understand I have to accept this eventuality, so trying at least to have a mitigation system.
I currently have a pump in the basement that pumps the basement sink into the sewer main. There is a pit in the ground that holds the pump, which is all located at the front of the house where there is a slop sink. The pit/pump has a check valve on it, but the sewer main does not.
I’d like to devise a system where I prevent any backup from the street from coming in (i.e., add a check valve to the main) and then more manually eject the roof rainwater that can’t get out past the check valve from my floor pit by pumping out the hatch. Basically, if I’m going to take on water, I’d prefer it to be from my roof than the city’s sewer system, and would rather have it collect in the floor pit rather than backup out of my toilets and drains potentially on higher floors.
Thoughts?
Separate, but relatedly, I had RR come to view the sewer line (almost $1K?!) and they quoted me $6,500 (after “discounts”) to have the sewer line descaled. That seemed outrageous (and we’re waiting anyway, as it was in good enough condition), but would like this done if I can get done for a few thousand. $6+K to run an auger seems bananas.
Thx!
lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 2 months ago
I would double check that quote; it seems more like Jetting than an auger. That being said, Jetting can range from 3K-6K depending on your sewer set up.
For the basement water, you cannot put the water onto the street or sidewalk: you would need to dump it in either your basement or backyard. There are ways to mitigate it, but they are normally pretty expansive so it all is determined by your level of investment.
lkrshacmzcy | 2 years and 2 months ago
I would double check that quote; it seems more like Jetting than an auger. That being said, Jetting can range from 3K-6K depending on your sewer set up.
For the basement water, you cannot put the water onto the street or sidewalk: you would need to dump it in either your basement or backyard. There are ways to mitigate it, but they are normally pretty expansive so it all is determined by your level of investment.
amt230 | 2 years and 2 months ago
Thanks Chris! Any recommendations for an alternative sewer service provider? The camera was ran from the trap both directions (about 40′ in and about 50′ out) on straight lines, so I don’t think there should be any complications. But glad I’m not crazy that $6K+ seemed high and I’ll get another quote, particularly since not urgent.
For my system, I do understand that I can’t create a water management system that dumps on the street, but this is a water emergency system to address the once-every-couple-years emergency, not a permanent automatic system. Ultimately, if my roof floods in my basement, I fully intend to break the law by pumping it outside and will run the risk of a ticket or fine.
dorkofwindsor | 2 years and 2 months ago
amt230, you wouldnt be the first. some are very discreet, some notsomuch [IMG_1565](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:dduM:img_1565.jpeg.jpg)
cate | 2 years and 2 months ago
FWIW, I recently paid $600 to a mom and pop drain/sewer specialist and plumber that has been in BK for years to have my sewer line inspected (because we were getting so much water into the basement we had to make sure there wasn’t a leak in the sewer line) and it was deemed clean as a whistle. Unfortunately, I can’t recommend people because I work for Brownstoner. Re the water from the roof, doesn’t the check valve allow water to flow out to the city sewer but not back into your drains? That said, if the city sewer line is full, there may not be anywhere for the water to go. I have heard of people devising a temporary holding tank but not sure how that works. One thing to watch out for is where the water erupts if there is a backup. Ours, luckily, blows the cap off our house trap cleanout in the cellar and floods the cellar. While it’s not great to have a flooded cellar, it’s certainly preferable to flooding the first bathroom on the line, which would destroy the bathroom (the floors there are wood and Marmoleum, not tile) and the plaster ceiling and wood floor below, and cost about $50,000 to repair.
workisfun | 2 years and 2 months ago
Anyone ever divert rainwater into a dry well in the yard with arterial pvc that feeds planters?
Guest User | 2 years and 2 months ago
I highly recommend ES https://electricseweranddrain.com/
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 2 years and 2 months ago
I think the volume of water running off a 2,000 square. ft. roof might overwhelm any dry well.
JohnHancock | 2 years and 2 months ago
Yes, I think Bob is right, you could fill a small swimming pool…
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 2 months ago
Green thinker or dork calculated that once.
workisfun | 2 years and 2 months ago
That’s a lot of roof! Mine is about 1200. I imagine filling the drywell, then it can move along through a network of planters and on to the grass yard, the front of which lies on 100 cubic ft of gravel. Just spitballin’.
Master Plvmber | 2 years and 2 months ago
Years ago I had a customer who owned a large home with a garden floor rental. The owner collected $9,000/month from the renter but the apartment flooded several times per year which was not a sustainable condition. Long story short, I devised a system where a check valve would close when the city sewer was full, the water from the home would then spill over into a sump pit where a grinding pump would force it back into the sewer with a tee set downstream of the closed check valve. I have no idea if this was a code compliant installation, but they never saw another drop of water in the tenant space again. They also never lost their ability to use their water, even in the numerous heavy storms since the work was done and the check valve closed. They spent about $40,000 on the system including patching and finishing of the floor (by others), but this was about 10 years ago I’d say.
cate | 2 years and 2 months ago
Thank you Master Plumber!
amt230 | 2 years and 2 months ago
Indeed, thank you Master Plumber, and everyone else, for this helpful input.
I don’t get $9K for a garden rental (that must be one hell of a house), so I’ll be looking for a much cheaper solution, but this is generally the idea. A couple questions:
How did you ensure the overflow would go into the sump pit? My pump has a check valve on it, won’t that prevent that and send water up to the next lowest fixture? My initial goal is to simply ensure any overflow happens there instead of someplace more finished elsewhere in the house.
Also, how did you force the water out the sewer when it was overflowed and the check valve was engaged. I understand you just bypassed the check valve, but I thought the idea was that once that valve was engaged that meant the sewer was full and it could not accept water, which is why I was thinking of going out the hatch.
I do intend to utilize a dry well in the backyard, as others suggested, but only for the extension (less than 200 square feet) so hopefully I won’t need a swimming pool sized container.
Thx!
Master Plvmber | 2 years and 2 months ago
I wish I knew where my drawings were….ugh. Story of my life.
Upstream of the check valve I installed a tee on a slight upward angle that would allow water to spill out of it when the house’s drain pipe was full. The water/sewage being used in the home would then spill into a large (sump pump) receiving tank with a strong pump in it. When the tank filled up, a float would rise and activate the pump. The pump needs only provide enough pressure to overcome the height of water in the sewer. So yes, even though the city sewer was “full” the pressure in the drain is only as much as the height of the water. It’s not much and it can be calculated like this: 1 PSI = 2.31 feet of water column. 2.31 feet is roughly 28 inches. So, if the city sewer is full of rainwater up to about 1 foot above your home’s building drain connection in the street, that’s still only about 1-¼ PSI of pressure the ejector pump has to overcome. That’s easy.
I hope this makes sense to you.
amt230 | 2 years and 2 months ago
All makes sense and is very helpful. I think I’m pretty close to being able to emulate this set up. I need a check valve installed on the sewer main, then to create this spillover tee setup to ensure overflow goes to the pit. Then my pump can be connected down the line to force back into the main (past the check).
Of course, I’m in the process of learning just how much there is to learn and repair in these buildings, so all this may have to wait to coordinate with other renovation tasks. I’m wondering, does installing a drain in my front stoop area/under stoop entrance interact with the parts of my system we’re discussing here?
Other elements of the system that are not related, but will be implemented later, include a green roof to reduce some of the rainwater coming through the house and a drywell for the extension runoff. Phew, does it ever end???
Master Plvmber | 2 years and 2 months ago
Your front stoop drain is probably high enough that it can be connected to the building drain downstream of the check valve.
amt230 | 2 years and 2 months ago
Thanks – does that all happen outside when I’m digging out the garden or does that connection happen inside near the trap/valve? If there’s more mess to be made inside, want to do it all at once – if its outside I can separate these two projects. High enough that a backed up sewer won’t overflow out that drain? Thank you!