Gut rehab in bushwick

My husband and I just moved to NYC and we have looked at a number of 2-family gut rehabbed townhomes in Bushwick. It seems most of them (if not all) do not have DOB approved plans or permits.
At this point, I’m not sure the ones we are looking at have fire separation walls installed. We have asked for building plans and mechanical/plumbing plans (at the contract negotiations phase) but no one seems willing to provide them. Do we just assume that nothing was done legally and up to code? We are lost- it seems buyers bear the brunt of everything.
Can we even expect to find a rehabbed property that was done properly? Any tips, help and suggestions appreciated.

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cate | 5 years and 9 months ago

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2345bcde, this horribly painful to read. I know what you mean. Re the landmarking — here’s the thing — to get it to happen, the residents of Bushwick need to take action beyond what is in the community plan. They must submit the Request for Evaluation to the Landmarks Preservation Commission. They then (or before) must gather a huge amount of support of residents in the affected area (they can work with HDC, the community board, and other preservationists in other neighborhoods to help them with advice) by literally knocking on doors and getting people to commit to testifying at LPC hearings. The residents must demand it of the LPC and the city. They must fight for it. And they must have their local council people and community board on board to win. Another thing about Bushwick — from what I have seen first hand, people have an idea that the purpose of landmarking is to preserve affordability and/or halt development. It is not, or it’s not supposed to be, and if people say that in their application or at the hearing, they may fail. The object is to preserve the histo ric character, buildings, and streetscapes of areas and buildings that are historically and/or architecturally significant. All of the sections and buildings identified in the plan are absolutely eligible. The residents must work and push and demand preservation or it will not happen. City officials will not do it for them. Look at Bed Stuy Bedford Historic District, Sunset Park, Crown Heights, talk to the people, read the designation reports and the press releases from the LPC to get an idea for how to do it. Attend the Historic Districts Council’s upcoming yearly meeting Saturday, March 7 to meet all the neighborhood activists across the city and hear first hand how they did it and what they are doing next.

cate | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Re the fire separation, many two-families in Bushwick were built without any division (not even a door) between the units at all. You’ll find a single floor-through apartment on the top with a garden/parlor duplex below it. This wouldn’t be legal today but is now grandfathered in. (Slightly later, smaller and further east are the two-families that are just two floor-through apartments. These may have slightly more separation and may have been more often owned by absentee landlords.) As for buying a flip, agree with what’s been said above — the average flipper works as cheaply as possible and I’ve heard tales of buyers having to renovate again. Generally it’s probably safer to buy a well-maintained house from a longtime owner occupant (with or without permits). They’re hard to find. In any case, look long and hard for a house with a dry cellar, no leaks, and still pretty level (stairs not pulling away, rear not dropped three inches). Beware of covered over areas i n the cellar or even exterior layers that could be pulling away from the frame and/or covering up hidden leaks. Don’t worry about ugly 1960s bathrooms. They can be fixed.

Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago

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If you’re going to spend $1m+ on a Bushwick project, you may be better off just doing the work yourself. You can get what you want and more importantly, you can not get what you don’t want. I am renovating a Bushwick townhome now to live in. Thankfully, it was owner-occupied for the last 65 years and the previous owners took great care of it, but what I like about this scenario is that I don’t need to do everything all at once. I’m doing a couple of key renovations (new kitchen, new bathrooms) but then as I live in the house I’ll figure out what I want.

One of the fun things about living in an old house is that you get to live with the house’s ghosts. The idea of taking a 100+ year house and removing everything within, only to rebuild it in a sterile contemporary style, seems counterproductive to me.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 5 years and 9 months ago

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The sort of houses Urbandad suggests may be found in abundance in PLG, especially the Lefferts Manor sub-neighborhood. Forgive my boosterism, but I couldn’t resist 🙂

hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago

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You’ll find the better work being done in neighborhoods where the houses are going for around 2.7m+. That’s because it costs a ton of money to renovate a brownstone properly, pay broker fees and transfer tax, architect and permit costs, etc. Also in a place like Bushwick, it probably spent the last 75 years as a cheap rental with minimal maintainance. So I think it would actually need more work than a house where perhaps some effort was made to to maintain the building or at least avoid modifications that damage the structure.

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 9 months ago

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There is an earlier post on here that has a lot of information on this (check my or UrbanDad history).
I do not want to beat a dead horse or start another back and forth but my professional advice is a home purchase is your biggest investment so treat it as such: Would you invest in a stock you know little about with a company who is unwilling to show you?

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 9 months ago

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There is an earlier post on here that has a lot of information on this (check my or UrbanDad history).
I do not want to beat a dead horse or start another back and forth but my professional advice is a home purchase is your biggest investment so treat it as such: Would you invest in a stock you know little about with a company who is unwilling to show you?

Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago

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We have looked on DOB for permits and there is one open permit but no other. Generally, few to no permits for most of the properties we have looked at. We would buy an older property without any renovations but know we would be sinking money and time into it.
Also because we are new to this area, we don’t really know who are the more reputable developers and architects. Any recommendations or experiences with developers etc (positive or negative)?

hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago

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I don’t really think you have to peel back the layers on a flipped frame house in bushwick with no paperwork. We all know what it is.

How do you find something better? Start by looking at houses that have people living in them. At least maybe someone else had to deal with any problems. Also, look for houses that have a known designer, architect, contractor, or developer with a reputation. When someone does a good quality job, they tend to want to be associated with the work. If the house is owned by Bushwick 249 LLC and seems to have been renovated by magical elves, that’s not a great sign.

mozeeatupu | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Have you checked the properties job folders on DOB

2345bcde | 5 years and 9 months ago

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I purchased a home in Bushwick almost ten years ago. The renovations and new buildings they are constructing are really bad. I’ve done construction for 40 years and have seen just terrible jobs that are done with no permits all over Bushwick. If your aesthetic is styrofoam and zero charm then buy in Bushwick. A realtor told me the renovation was just to give you a sense of what you could do and you would need to redo the place. They are tearing all the nice old homes down because they want the larger lots for the horrific, garbage apartment buildings they seem to put up In terrifyingly short periods of time. The city is allowing developers to completely ruin Bushwick Ave by refusing to landmark anything. The city refused all of the recommendations the community board made regarding zoning and have decided to sell off Bushwick to developers. Move to Ridgewood.

Guest User | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Thank you both for the replies. We realize that a better renovated place would cost more but even then, it’s hard to tell which ones are better renovated than others until you peel all the layers back.

hkapstein | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Welcome to NYC. Yes, you can find rehabbed work that was done properly, but it will probably be at the luxury end of the price range. The fact is, when you’re doing a rehab, fancy kitchens sell, and termite repairs do not. When a homeowner exposes mechanicals he will usually try to fix them before sheetrocking up. But when a developer does, they won’t spend money on that when they could spend it on a wolf stove and subzero fridge that the brokers can talk about. Most buyers see that stuff in the kitchen and think “I’m sure everything in this house is up to standard. Who would put a subzero fridge in a place that has lead pipes?”

A smart buyer might wait for a house that was renovated properly, but a good house at a good price probably won’t last that long on the market. On the other hand, there’s always junky flips up for sale, and as soon as one is bought the developer will list the next one.

eman134 | 5 years and 9 months ago

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Pretty much assume that nothing was done legally and up to code…budget accordingly. Chances are the heat, hvac, water lines are all substandard and will have to be redone. If you’re lucky there will be no structural issues, but don’t count on it. I’ve had clients buy a place thinking they got a deal only to find that new sheetrock was covering up termite infestations..