General contractor needed to pull permit?

There are many permit types but as this forum generally focuses on construction work discussions, subsequently the above attach’ is a pass-along from an established Building Design & Construction Architectural firm in Brooklyn.
It has been generally known in the construction world in NY for many years that a G.C. is hired to pull the permit via his/her EIN number & tracking number, even though the specialty contractor – an iron worker for example – is running/overseeing the job. The common procedure is the architect fills out a PW2 form for the G.C. to sign and the G.C. submits the PW2 to the DOB for the permit.The architect and structural engineer on file are responsible for the required TR1 inspections to close out the job.

Unverified source 🙂 I joke…but good question.

thanks, but who wrote that?

[Work Permits](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:LEcD:workpermits.jpg.jpg)

ok, now i better see your situation; first, set your husband aside with the workers comp. when you apply for workers comp as a business owner (and i assume GC) you are allowed to specify, they will ASK you, do you want to cover the owner of the company and you can check yes or no. if you check no, you are buying for the “staff”.

but now i get your point, your sub’s employees are not your staff. be aware, some subs do not carry it on themselves and then they may have to be covered under the GC.

don’t think that NYSIF will not understand your situation. they have answered a lot of questions for me. and the NYC market is big and you are not alone in what you are doing and you are trying to do the right thing; put the onus on the city and those who sell product to get you there.

the company in mineola is Contractors Insurance. i was just on their website and they do sell worker’s comp. you can ask them questions about the subs. they are patient with questions.

sometimes when you call people and even when you listening to what i am saying, you tak e notes and may find that what people are saying may or may not work in your situation . that does not mean it is wrong but you have (to use jane’s word in another post) “glean” from it.

I do not see the point in becoming a GC. when i said the other day that “i could become one next week” i was trying to say to others “stop analyzing this HIC and GC thing as those licenses really offer the homeowner nothing in the way of any skillset” and the HIC only offers the safety that the city has run a back ground check on us and made us get a completion bond and with the GC, more of the same plus money in the bank and worker’s comp. if you are doing a job for yourselves, you are responsible to yourselves financially and yes, you will have to have worker’s comp on any employees.

Thank you! What a lot of work you have done. The place that really gives me pause is “you would still need comp to cover your subs though because even though the subs should have it, i think the GC is also required to carry it over and above the subs..” If my husband could get workers comp (and disability) then he could qualify as a GC in any case, but so far we haven’t been able to even get a quote as to what that would cost. I guess I could telephone New York State Insurance Fund but I doubt I will reach anyone who is capable of dealing with this situation, where there would be no employees, just subs.

Ithaca:

so i checked the the 2014 building code which did not address this in detail within itself but referred to title 28, sections 104 and 105 of the city administrative code. i did not take notes as i was lying back while reading this, so this could be a little mixed up and missing important detail. The Administrative Code says that submittal of the construction docs must be made by a licensed design professional (architect or engineer). Once those are submitted, the “applicant” (the applicant “is the person who will do the work”) files for the permits. IN NO PLACE IN THESE SECTIONS OF THE CODE ARE THE WORDS “GENERAL CONTRACTOR” MENTIONED. Just “applicant”.

If you read about this on line (i have the links marked on my phone), you will find the actual paper application that the applicant must fill out and on that form are boxes to be checked to signify who the applicant is: G/C, …… and Homeowner (with permission of DOB). i wonder if that permission includes reviewing certain things such as Demolition and excavation which appear to have separate fo rms to be submitted with the application by those specialties or the worker’s comp issue, which comes to this:

some place i found it stated (i have the link saved) that in order for a Homeowner to get a permit, they must get a certificate of exception from the workers comp board. i checked that, it is a standard form and process where someone who is self employed or working alone needs a form from workers comp to present to another government agency stating that they do not need worker’s comp. you would still need comp to cover your subs though because even though the subs should have it, i think the GC is also required to carry it over and above the subs..

and finally, i read something that said a GC is not needed to build a one or two family home, for themselves. three family and over requires a GC. this may be wrong, as i only read it in passing in something else not related to permitting or document submittal.

it now seems all plumbing permits must be pulled by the plumber, not the homeowner or GC. again, i could be wrong. so read.

i once took a class on the Buildings Code taught by Rick Chandler. Rick was at the time the Bronx Borough Commissioner and later became the DOB Commissioner. This would have been a great question to have put to him in that class. that’s a long time ago and he is now in private practice some place if not retired. i wonder if i could drop him an email?

this is a starting place. keep reading and talking.

ithaca, you have to run that thing down with the permit. i have heard the architect can file and you can pick up the permit – IF IT IS FOR YOUR PROPERTY. Keep in mind, i really do not know, but after like 27 years of doing business with buildings in this city, i have learned that a lot of professionals do not have the answers (people accept off the cuff answers at “face value” and do not look further) and city employees are often dolts and paper pushers who will not investigate any further than their hands travel on the desk so you have to explain THEIR jobs to them. i have spent years listening to “this cannot be done” and that cannot be done only to find legal ways around it and my first boss in NYC taught me to be that way. the second job i had in NYC had a slew of open jobs and unpermitted work and violations going back over a decade and we had to close them because the owners wanted to change the CofO. it was work, but we got it done with the help of a good expeditor (Gary Johnson and i think the company was JDC; might be worth a call; i can call him i suppose, i have not spoken to him in years)

you know who would have the answer: DIBS and if he did not know, he would say so.

i might look today for you. but if i find it, you have to know the people at the DOB will argue with you. you will have to let them know you are smarter and better read than they are. if you get really mad at them, tell them your “grandfather wrote the 1938 building code” or something.

do not get discouraged until you are certain it cannot be done and that means research. it means reaching to all the people you know and telling everyone you know what you are trying to do until one person says “i have a friend that….”.

Thank you, it is very kind of you to offer. For now we have gotten so discouraged that we are going to see if we can find a general contractor we can work with (one who will pull the permit but who will be willing to let us take over a fair amount of the work).

ithaca: i was the one who brought up disability insurance in this so i feel bound to add this:

the broker once told me that disability insurance is designed to “replace income”. yet when i was buying it, i was allowed to choose the amount. so (being a smart ass) i said, “so i make say 50k but i can take a policy that would allow me to collect 100K a year if i get hurt?” they told me “NO, you can NOT do that” (they’d have all sorts of people getting hurt if they allowed that). this has me thinking that there may have to be income to get a policy as well. so ask questions.

and with insurance, and i have been buying different products for years, i generally tell the truth all the time. i am not so afraid of accidentally breaking the law, but i am always afraid they will deny the claim if they find out a lie had been made when obtaining the insurance. i do know someone who was denied a disability claim once and he took them to court and lost (they settled by refunding his premiums) and i can only imagine he was not forthright about something from the ons et.

when i got into this, it was actually another contractor who told me the ins and outs of this stuff and what i needed. i now have a really good broker and i do not know the limits of what products they offer. if you wish, i can make a call and see if they have products that might help you and post their name if it may help. there is also a firm in mineola li that specializes in insurance for contractors – maybe they do not carry what you need but i would bet they would know what you need and where to get it (and the principals like to chat, they will entertain your questions). can’t recall the name of that firm.

also, if your husband will be doing a lot of work and will have a lot of tools, you will have to have protection for those – either through the insurance on the unoccupied property or through off premises theft on the property you currently occupy. and possibly on autos. these vary and we have never been able to put our auto and home under one insurer because some cover this but not that, etc.

for anyone who does not want to read my “gibberish” above, there is a paragraph that explains why something Urbandad has suggested in his reply above is fraud (criminal).

last week urbandad suggested hiding something behind sheetrock to obscure it from a required dob inspection. and i do believe the person he suggested that to was a coop board member (so that could have put that person in a very bad place with the city and other property owners).

this kind of stuff pisses contractors off. as we move around this city, we must protect our reputations (people give us keys to their houses and i am a licensed locksmith and most of my jobs involve locks and keys) and the people who are pay grades above us do not know right from wrong and if they do know what they are suggesting is wrong, they are willing to broadcast it on the internet.

urbandad, stop regurgitating what i am saying on here. “the salary is an estimate”; it is not that you report actual earnings, it is that they send an auditor to you and the auditor looks at your check book to see who you have written payroll checks to-

i too have thought of what you are saying about having your spouse pay you as a contractor and there may be benefits to that but i held back saying it on here because Jane has been commenting about people who talk about things that they have not been through and i decided that telling people about such a scheme without being an accountant might be wrong especially if we consider that the property might be held in both names or one files their taxes jointly and the part about this you don’t seem to get is if you are trying to replace income with insurance, you have to have income and the more of that you have the more taxes you pay so what is the point? pay a pile of taxes in case you get hurt? add a load of income and make it look like you earned it the week before you get hurt just to inflate your insurance payou t? (that does not smell good) and if they are not on a payroll capacity their own medical (should? might?) cover, so no need for that which brings us to disability:

i used to think you were an astute reader: i did not say disability will cost 500 a week, a said for a 500 a week payout it will cost you. disability coverage cost is not determined by the salary, it is determined by the amount of lost income you wish to make up – and that can be all over the place. to suggest 1500 a year cost with no idea of the coverage you are talking about is baseless. you have no idea what you are talking about here.

in so far as telling people on this board to classify someone who is a construction worker as an office worker, i would not advise people on this board to misclassify anyone for any purpose having to do with insurance. first off, i would be too worried that an insurance investigation would follow and they would use misclassification as a reason to deny the claim. but what you are saying about this smells like fraud and as a business owner and someone who has paid for insurance of all types for over a decade, i find the suggestion of such activity disgusting and suggest keeping it off this board. ( i just looked up the type of crime misclassifying an employee is to lower a premium; it is called “premium fraud”).

lastly, if the OP does this as a sole prop, they will not be able to issue themselves a W-2 – they will have to incorporate. if they file for a FEIN in their own name and set themselves up as a sole prop (in their name or a dba; you must register the DBA to open a bank account), they can keep a checking account under the sole prop and write pay checks to themselves and also write checks to cover business expenses or cover petty cash (with proper supporting evidence) to themselves and only pay the premiums based on what they take as “pay”. at the end of the year either pay all of your outstanding bills or take that as “pay” (and pay taxes on it). what kind of accounting fool would pay insurance premiums or taxes for on an amount that includes business expenses? what are you telling or suggesting to people on this board?

this is beyond being mistaken. some of us on here, including me, have made mistakes in things we say because we have done some things so long ago (i have not been a sole proprietor since July of 2007) that we forget or mix something up. but there are others on here writing about things they are “guessing” about. Last week Jane came on here and suggested that someone consult a pro who has been through a specific issue. i am saying it here: I am very much with Jane that if people are going to comment on here, they should be commenting from experience and in many cases the readers on this board would be wise to consult a professional. in what i say above, i am not an accountant, i have only told people how i handled some things over a decade ago. anyone on this board who has questions about the worker’s comp or accounting practices would be wise to consult the NYSIF or an accountant.

The salary is an estimate, you report the actual earnings after the tax year is over and they adjust the premium up or down. What if you’re a gc and you don’t get any projects one year, so you didn’t pay anyone out?

But if you want to show actual income, you could get your spouse to give you a 1099 for some amount, or hire your spouse as a w2 employee. You’d pay payroll taxes on whatever you passed through that way, but it could maybe be just a few hundred bucks.

I dont think it will cost 500 a week for one part time employee, maybe something like 1500 a year with disability. I would classify the employee as an office worker, as it will be higher for a construction worker.

I’ve gotten workers comp policies by the way, and it wasn’t too hard. You’ll need to figure out how to make a w2 and maybe paystubs if you went this route. I think it would work as long as you don’t try to deduct any business expenses, since they would all be personal expenses.

Ithaca, i think i see some of the confusion. i have been assuming that the OP would be taking out workmens comp on THEIR employees during the reno. Not themselves. that is probably all different. WOrkers comp is designed to cover lost income and medical. but if there is no income, right, you are putting Zero down so there is nothing to cover. it sounds like it would be hard to get worker’s comp to work on your own project that does not bear income.

if you are actually planning on working in an income producing job and no income has rolled in yet, i would estimate the income; they will not come after you for lying; they will audit you and ask for the additional premium; no one gets in trouble.

what the OP might want to look at to cover income should they get hurt on that job site or anywhere else, is a personal disability policy. i used to have one. i think they kick in after one week of lost wages if you are injured and cannot work. i dont thin k it is tested against income. i think you pay for 500 a week coverage (its pricey) and if you get hurt that is what you get. a lot of contractors carry these sorts of policies.

ok, thanks. But an estimate of salary would necessarily be false because the only salary can be 0. And I guess it could only be done by telephone because the online form would not let me proceed.

i just called the NYSIF. I told them i was thinking about starting a new construction business that would be a “sole Proprietorship” and i might have employees. they said i can get worker’s comp. i would need a FEIN (fed employer id number; not a social. a fein can be held in one’s name). they said if this is a new company and i do not have salary history, an estimate to the number of employees and salaries would suffice.

this is the same way i went through this with my corp.

ithaca, i cannot speak to the part about a sole proprietorship as i am set up as a corp. in so far as the salary, i would not be deterred by them asking for salary as whenever i have done it, i have taken a guess for the year forward and all has worked well (it seems they use it only as a billing estimate; at the end of the year they will catch it during the annual audit).

i have heard the same thing that others are saying from brokers, that you have to have a “salary” and the reason i went with NYSIF is that they seem to be set up for people who have less of a history. they are cheaper and easier to deal with.

i just tried to apply for a quote under my old sole proprietor name but they are asking for a Federal Tax ID Number which i cannot locate and would take weeks to get.

So call nysif and ask them what to put for salary if you’re self employed. Don’t do the work under your business, I’d keep that separate. @janedrew, a solution for that box would be to tick the one that says a HIC license is not necessary.

“No person shall solicit, canvass, sell, perform or obtain a home improvement contract as a contractor or salesperson from an owner without a license therefor.” So it sounds like you arguably are not dealing with any kind of contract if you’re working for yourself. If I replace the flooring in my own house, that’s more than 200 dollars of work. Do I need a license to do that? What if I install a new vanity in my bathroom?

Do so at your own risk. There are penalties if you file a false statement with DOB, so get proper advice on whether you need to check that box.

doorsbythetinkerswagon, I am sure you could become a GC easily. But it is not clear that a homeowner without a company, or a homeowner with a company that has no employees, will be able to get workmen’s comp insurance, and without that insurance one cannot be a licensed GC. My insurance broker says it is impossible. As an experiment, I tried getting a quote from the NY State Insurance Fund. I have a company, but it is a sole proprietorship (and it’s a publishing firm, nothing to do with construction) . In the application one of the required fields is salary, but a sole proprietor cannot, by law, have a salary. So I didn’t get far with that.